Did the PID/Steam pressure upgrade on Profitec Pro 700. Now have low brew pressure - Page 2

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LatteJim

Postby LatteJim » Feb 10, 2019, 2:54 am

I did the PID upgrade on my Synchronika. Worked great for over a month and then got a CLN message and couldn't get rid of it. Temp nor timer would work. After many attempts suggested by CC without success, I reinstalled the original PID and everything worked again, without the higher steam pressure and temp. However, it had a loud pump noise and brew pressure was only around 1/4 bar.

More discussion with CC led me to open up the machine again. I also found the water line from the tank twisted and kinked. Turns out, during prior work, I had rotated te water tank 360 degrees when putting it back together, not only causing the kink, but also wrapping the electric wire around the tubing.

Still had the issue with the CLN message and finally convinced CC to send a new PID under warranty and everything working great now.

beefsks

Postby beefsks » Feb 10, 2019, 8:26 am

I was just getting ready to ask if the upgrade was worth it. Did it make a difference on the brew temp stability

LatteJim

Postby LatteJim » replying to beefsks » Feb 10, 2019, 12:10 pm

As a related issue, when considering the PID upgrade, I also decided to switch to a 4 hole tip. They were back ordered, and the vendor suggested another brand tip that they said would fit.

After install of the PID and new tip, I was very disappointed with the steam performance. If anything, it seemed like there was less steam than before, it certain didn't froth a pitcher of milk any faster. I used it for about a month and noticed I had a lot more difficulty cleaning milk off the tip after steaming. When I realized the end of the tip was brown from burned milk, I removed the tip.

The new tip had no recess inside for the non-burn tube. When I put on the new 4 hole tip, it had crushed and distorted the tube, partially blocking any flow. I straightened the tube as best I could and re-installed the original tip. What a difference. The amount of steam was now incredible. Milk steamed in 1/4 the time.

If considering a 4 hole tip, I recommend staying with the original brand if you intend to leave the no-burn tube in place.


After I got the PID, kinked tube (my fault) and the tip straightened out, yes I would recommend the upgrade. My temp increased to 272 and pressure up about 1 bar, (if I remember correctly, not at home relight now). The initial steam blast when cleaning any condensate is scary compared to original.

I steam two pitchers of milk, 17 Oz. each, for our two morning 2 double shot lattes. Steaming used to take a lot of time. I haven't timed steaming, but initial frothing to 100 degrees is very fast, the hand on the thermometer moves like a second hand. At that point, I submerge the tip and grind18 gram into a basket. With my grinder, that's less than 3 seconds. Quick weigh, and I have to shut off the steam as the milk has reached my desired 170 degrees. If really on my game, I might get the PF tamped before I have to stop steaming.

Between the PID upgrade and new grinder I've cut morning prep time in half. Including clean up and dishes from 30 to 15 minutes.

PS: PID makes no difference on brew temp. You still set that the same as before. It allows you to set the steam temperature up from about 250 to 270. This results in a higher pressure hence the pressure relief valve that also must be installed.

The higher steam volume and heat is more quickly transferred to the milk, significantly reducing the frothing time. The higher pressure also greatly increases the rolling and turbulence of the milk in the picture, providing better incorporation and finer micro foam.

I'd say the upgrade brings the steaming up to the level of the rest of the machines feature and feel it was a very worthwhile upgrade. It's standard on current machines. Ordered mine 3 months too early, but I think they raised the price on the new machine, so I'm even I guess.

elbertfunkleberg

Postby elbertfunkleberg » Feb 16, 2019, 11:43 pm

Is a 10F hike in steam boiler temp really worth $200... or is there some hype at play? I wonder if those people reporting great results from the "upgrade" had tried setting their original PID to 262F first, since the default temp of shipped machines was 252F ? Maybe someone with a degree in thermodynamics can explain how increasing the boiler temp from 262F to 272F could increase the pressure from 1.4 bar to 2 bar.

LatteJim

Postby LatteJim » Feb 17, 2019, 12:08 am

My Synkronika max steam temp before the upgrade was 252. I don't know the thermodynamics of the operation of this machine, but I do know that I steam a pitcher of milk in less than half the time. I feel like the cost was completely worth it.

elbertfunkleberg

Postby elbertfunkleberg » Feb 17, 2019, 2:23 am

LatteJim wrote:My Synkronika max steam temp before the upgrade was 252.

Interesting. The original Profitec 700 can be set to 262F.