Dialing in technique with Rocket R Cinquantotto

Need help with equipment usage or want to share your latest discovery?
btalcox0715
Posts: 52
Joined: 8 years ago

#1: Post by btalcox0715 »

Hi all,

Started my espresso journey 9 or so years ago and I've recently upgraded equipment (again :D). For the last 7.5 years, I've owned a Ceado E37S and Rocket Cellini PID (vibe pump). Couple weeks ago I upgraded to the Rocket R Cinquantotto and 83mm SSP (high uniformity) burrs for my Ceado (and also a palm tamp and WDT tool).

I never really had issues with uneven extractions on my Cellini, but I cannot seem to figure out why I cannot get consistently even extractions on the R58! The problem mostly seems to be my extractions favoring the right side of the basket, causing the coalescing espresso to stay on right side of the puck. I'll admit a certain degree of this purely aesthetic (and if it tastes good, who cares) but part is also a seemingly uneven extraction, as denoted by flow and color. A point of clarification as well--this problem started _solely_ with the purchase of the machine, and none of the other aforementioned accessories, burrs or changes. Honestly the tamp and WDT tool were purchased as an attempt to help remedy this.

The Cinquantotto unfortunately doesn't have adjustable feet, and the machine was a little wiggly initially on my counter. Ended up shimming a couple of the feet to get it stable. I was actually thinking my machine wasn't level either, so I even went so far as to lift right side of machine up 5-6mm, yet problem still remains. Additionally, since _some_ of my extractions _are_ pretty even, an off level machine wouldn't really add up.

Here is a equipment/process summary prior to the Cinquantotto:
  • Rocket Cellini
  • Ceado E37S - stock burrs
  • 18g VST basket
  • IMS Nano shower screen
  • Reg Barber tamper with rippled base
  • Saint Anthony BT Wedge tool
  • Using a baby whisk for "WDT" (I'm sorry)
Here is a equipment/process summary when the problem first appeared:
  • Rocket R Cinquantotto
  • Ceado E37S - stock burrs
  • 18g VST basket
  • IMS Nano shower screen
  • Reg Barber tamper with rippled base
  • Saint Anthony BT Wedge tool
  • Using a baby whisk for "WDT" (I'm sorry)
Here is a equipment/process summary at current:
  • Rocket R Cinquantotto
  • Ceado E37S - SSP HU burrs (performed marker alignment)
  • 18g VST basket
  • IMS Nano shower screen
  • Saint Anthony BT Wedge tool
  • Saint Anthony New Levy
  • Sworks Design WDT with 0.22 needles
Here is a video of an extraction today:
Here is a pic of the puck (after video 1).

Here is another video of an extraction (different bean, but also didn't get anything as good as this for rest of shots with this bean) which is a bit better and pretty even:
I feel like I'm going crazy and have worked a ton to reduce the variance between my shots and improve consistency in puck preparation. Given that some of my shots are even and some are not even, what other variable could be the cause for this?

Thanks in advance!

beans+crumble
Posts: 126
Joined: 2 years ago

#2: Post by beans+crumble »

I wonder if it comes down to the gradual build up of pressure (vibe pump) vs the immediate pressure (rotary pump) on the puck that's causing the issue if you've kept every other variable the same. Perhaps even small deficiencies in puck prep are being magnified with the rotary pump.

In my work flow I grind, palm tap the sides of the portafilter to initially distribute, then WDT to break up any clumps/final distribution. Then use my jack leveler (mainly because I like it makes the puck surface flat... it's debatable that it does anything more than just making a flat surface but hey... it's my routine and it works for me) followed by tamping with my big step tamper. I have a rotary pump machine and my extractions are consistently even.

I see in your prep you WDT then use a distribution tool... maybe reverse that order and see what happens? Also, just have to say just to say but I'm sure you're already doing it, make sure your tamp is level and you're not favoring one side vs the other?

btalcox0715 (original poster)
Posts: 52
Joined: 8 years ago

#3: Post by btalcox0715 (original poster) »

That was definitely a thought of mine, and I actually have a flow control on the way :D Curious if I mimic the flow of a vibe pump at the start if I'll get similar results to what I had before. And tamping level has definitely been a concern I've been focusing on--that's why I purchased the palm tamp from Saint Anthony Industries as an attempt to get consistently level each time. Even with my old tamp, I've purposefully put additional pressure on the right side to see if I can overcompensate, and it doesn't seem to impact much.

Even if the machine was off level, surely the extraction itself would/could still be even, right?

beans+crumble
Posts: 126
Joined: 2 years ago

#4: Post by beans+crumble »

I'm fairly certain for best results the machine should set pretty level. I'm sure being slightly out of level won't cause huge issues but being dramatically out of level probably will affect the path the water chooses to take... hard to over come gravity I would think if the machine is leaning more towards one side. The owner's manual states it should be placed on a level surface.

Tony163
Posts: 101
Joined: 2 years ago

#5: Post by Tony163 »

Once you are satisfied the machine is level I would run a shot or so with no coffee in the portafilter and see if the water pattern looks even. You could even study the water distribution out of the shower screen (ie, with no portafilter) and see if it appears to be even or skewed to the right side. If it does seem skewed, you could remove the shower screen and repeat and see how that looks. Admittedly not scientific but you may observe something meaningful just from these steps.

btalcox0715 (original poster)
Posts: 52
Joined: 8 years ago

#6: Post by btalcox0715 (original poster) »

Distributing using my BT Wedge and then doing WDT seems to have made quite a difference! I don't know exactly why but I'm getting pretty even shots now :D

User avatar
borrik
Posts: 129
Joined: 2 years ago

#7: Post by borrik »

For me shots looks pretty decent, but portafilter looks a bit overfilled with the grounds. On my machine (with rotary pump as well) I should keep more space on top of the puck (i.e. grind finer ) to keep enough water as damper.