Peppersass wrote:some info was just posted that the CC1 may not get up to proper temperature.

Not in my experience and I did some detailed tests. You add 5°F to PID and flush for 3 seconds before pulling shot and you are pretty much spot on the desired temperature.

Peppersass wrote:Not sure why the stale coffee tastes sour to you. My experience has been that stale coffee is more likely to overextract and taste bitter. That's why updosing and grinding coarser sometimes helps to deal with stale coffee (when brewed the same length of time, the coffee will be less extracted.) It could be that the beans are so old the volatiles have completely disappeared. But it's also possible that your palate isn't yet accustomed to distinguishing between sour and bitter espresso. They both make you want to spit the coffee out. Even after making a lot of espresso, I sometimes have trouble telling the two apart, especially after my palate has been desensitized by tasting a lot of shots.

I'm guessing this is a large part of my problem. In fact, I happened to walk past Phil and Sebastian's (well-regarded roaster in town) and decided to grab some more beans. While I was at it, I tasted their shot (decaf, after a day of experimentation!), and there was that same acidic taste that I didn't like! However, the end of it was delicious and full of all sorts of other flavours, so there's definitely something that I'm doing wrong as well. I did have delicious espresso without (IMO) any offensive acidity while I was in Spain, but perhaps I just need to accept that acidity is a part of it.

Peppersass wrote:Finally, some info was just posted that the CC1 may not get up to proper temperature. Check this thread.

My advice is to check into the CC1 mod mentioned above and get some good coffee from one of the roasters recommended on this site. This thread is a good place to start your research. Check with the roaster on recommended rest time. If you can't get information, letting it rest for a week past roast is a pretty safe guess.

That is interesting, thanks. I should pull out my temperature probe and take some measurements. I've got it cranked to 210 right now, and it seems plenty hot, but I would agree that I'm not getting the same complexity of flavour (with P&S coffee) as I got at their cafe.

On a side note...I just got a rattleware grinder tray, thought I'd post a picture of the CC1 and Preciso side by side (vario probably looks similar)

How long does it take to pull the shot? [edit]: I read your post more carefully and it sure sounds like you are doing the right thing. Is there an espresso place where you can try their espresso and buy their beans?

Mark

Yup, I'm now using Phil & Sebastian's coffee. I'm still having trouble getting things right, but I think I'm getting closer. If it were perfect the first time, there wouldn't be anything left to experiment with, right?

One more serious problem has cropped up. I accidentally left the machine on overnight, but I figured it wasn't a big deal as there was still water left in the reservoir. I pulled a shot, steamed some milk, and then noticed that the temperature had shot up to 217, 12 degrees above my set point. I thought that was weird, but I ran some water to clean the grouphead anyway. Even weirder: the timer started running crazy fast! I only turned it on for a second or so but it counted up to 10.

I shut the machine off and didn't touch it for another day. This morning when I turned it on and let it warm up, everything was fine until I tried to switch to steam. The machine appeared to be frozen, not responding to any button presses/dial turns. Then, the backlight turned off and the display showed "setup" (not blinking), and was still unresponsive. I turned it off, and then (because I wanted steam) turned it back on, and everything seemed okay.

This flakiness is a bit concerning in a $700 machine! I'll give it a few more days to think about what it's done, but if it keeps up I'll have to talk to someone.

Update in case anyone stumbles across this thread:

My flakiness issues have been resolved! Either a bit of water got into the electronics, as suggested by tech support at idrinkcoffee.com (fixed by unplugging and letting it dry out for a day or so), or it just needed a CPU reset as suggested by BillC himself. Apparently a few Canadian machines have had this problem, either due to the customs scanners (I'm skeptical, but I suppose it's possible), or perhaps it didn't approve of our pulling out of Kyoto Either way, I'm now pretty sure that any remaining taste problems are a result of insufficiency of skill and not of equipment. I'm also thoroughly impressed with the level of customer service that I've received from both idrinkcoffee and from Crossland Coffee.

Hi Charbucks, (or anyone else who has some insight to offer)

I am currently in the same boat you were probably in a few months ago. I am undecided between the Silvia/Vario, CC1/Vario, and the Silvano/Vario. Could you please provide another update and make my decision just a little easier? I'm new to the forums but have been reading various reviews and topics for the past 4 days.

Thanks in Advance.

*Currently Seattle Coffee Gear has the CC1/Vario for the sale price of $1,048.

FYI: I had bought the Breville 860XL from Bed Bath and Beyond and was dissapointed especially after reading these forums. I returned the machine a week later. I'm hoping to produce a much better quality shot this time around as well as a great Cap!

eantunes0204 wrote:Hi Charbucks, (or anyone else who has some insight to offer)

I am currently in the same boat you were probably in a few months ago. I am undecided between the Silvia/Vario or the CC1/Vario. Could you please provide another update and make my decision just a little easier? I'm new to the forums but have been reading various reviews and topics for the past 4 days.

Thanks in Advance.

*Currently Seattle Coffee Gear has the CC1/Vario for the sale price of $1,048.

FYI: I had bought the Breville 860XL from Bed Bath and Beyond and was dissapointed especially after reading these forums. I returned the machine a week later. I'm hoping to produce a much better quality shot this time around.

WLL has the Silvia + Vario for $988 with a lot of extras. I guess that makes your decision a little harder because that's as cheap as I've ever seen that combo.

http://www.wholelattelove.com/WLLMachin ... _vario.cfm

I think it comes down to a few things. Many have said how finicky the Silvia is and that you may need a PID (another $150) to get the most of out of the machine. You could try your hand at temperature surfing but you may eventually get tired of that and add the PID. I don't have experience with the Silvia but it seems to be a polarizing machine. There are many in one group who have success with it out of the box and others who go to hell and back trying to dial it in right.

Then there is the CC1 which has a built in PID, a thermoblock for steaming, and was engineered behind a guy who knows a lot about espresso and espresso machines. However it is a newer unit and not as many people have had experience with it.

So I think it depends on your needs/wants. If you want something that's simpler to use and you need to be quick about it in the morning I'd grab the CC1. If you feel safer with the tried and true Silvia and are willing to put in extra effort then maybe the Silvia is your machine. I considered both machines but eventually decided on the Gaggia Classic. Personally I think paying $700 for a machine is high enough for me that at that point I'd probably spend the extra money to grab an entry level HX machine. That's just me though.

Just a quick suggestion for anyone dialing in a new machine - seek out fresh beans that are both well known and 'forgiving'. There's two good ways to do this:

1) If you have a good cafe locally that would be the best, especially if they're using coffee from a well known roaster (Counter Culture, Intelligentsia, Stumptown, Terrior). That way you can taste the coffee when it's pulled well, compare that to your shots at home, and maybe even ask the barista how they're preparing the shots. But make sure the beans are fresh, and that they're a well-known blend (Toscano, Daterra, Hairbender, ect). The idea isn't try new and exotic coffees when your equipment is all new. Use something that's consistent, and that lots of people have tried and can give advice on.

2) If there's no good cafe nearby, try using a blend that's popular on here, and has a reputation for being forgiving. Tosacano from Counter Culture would work for this too, as would Red Bird espresso, and I personally like Ambrosia from Caffe Fresco as being very forgiving of temp changes. These are blends that a lot of people have tried, yield very well rounded espressos, and that are forgiving - they give good espresso from a wide range of dose/grind/temps.

The experience of dialing in a well known blend will let you learn how your new equipment works, and what you need to do to get the best out of it.