gunda wrote:
Sales for the 1.3 seem to be booming at the moment and Decent is expanding as fast as they can to keep up with demand. So the price hikes don't seem to be putting people off. But if the price keeps going up the way it has been with these new versions, then at some point its going to limit demand. I agree that it's a pity that they can't broaden the machines appeal by offering a lower priced machine, although I suspect that UL certification would complicate that. I doubt that removing steam is going to save much and would complicate matters, esp with the new group head controller. I can't see it being a big seller, and there would be substantial development and certification costs. If they ever decide to go back to the idea of a lower priced machine I doubt that this would be the way to do it.

I think that as they get more popular, there is more interest in people "jumping on the decent wagon" because people are now trusting them more. Compared to a few years back there was a lot of skepticism as with everything new to the market. Go back to posts on Home-Barista from 2016 and read about the DE1. It's kind of funny because I'm sure everyone has a different opinion now. Or the "Buy the GS3 because the DE1 will break soon". They literally have every single part they use that you can purchase for yourself.

There's still people who pay $5400 - $7500 for a La Marzocco for the "simplicity or timeless, long-lasting design" So why wouldn't someone pay Sub $3500 for a machine with a lot more potential. I'm fairly new to the whole coffee hobby in perspective so I read up fairly recently & own a BDB rn. I'm surprised by the number of people still considering HX designs for example that are worth a couple grand.

N6GQ wrote:Since there are no discrete steam boilers in the DE, there's no savings in room

My understanding is that there are separate heaters for steam and brew. The new firmware that has just been released for V1.3 and will shortly be for V1.1 / V1.0 allows you to turn off the steam heater. (I haven't actually seen this myself just yet, having V1.1, but that's my understanding.) It's the steam path that is most susceptible to scale, and so there are a number of benefits to turning it off if you rarely use it.

So in theory there would be small space and cost savings, but I agree that the demand for a steamless machine would be so small as to make its development uneconomic.

jevenator wrote:I think that as they get more popular, there is more interest in people "jumping on the decent wagon" because people are now trusting them more. Compared to a few years back there was a lot of skepticism as with everything new to the market. Go back to posts on Home-Barista from 2016 and read about the DE1. It's kind of funny because I'm sure everyone has a different opinion now. Or the "Buy the GS3 because the DE1 will break soon". They literally have every single part they use that you can purchase for yourself.

There's still people who pay $5400 - $7500 for a La Marzocco for the "simplicity or timeless, long-lasting design" So why wouldn't someone pay Sub $3500 for a machine with a lot more potential. I'm fairly new to the whole coffee hobby in perspective so I read up fairly recently & own a BDB rn. I'm surprised by the number of people still considering HX designs for example that are worth a couple grand.

You're not just paying $3,500. Those people are paying $5,400 once, and minor amounts for repairs. I'm looking into Decent myself but three versions already? That's $3,500 x 3 - resell amount, technically, if you want the best product they offer.

I owned the Flair PRO, I sold it for that reason after they released the Flair PRO 2. I find incremental releases terribly annoying. I still ended up getting a Flair PRO 2 to try out for $250 new, because I can sell it whenever I want. $3,500+ for incremental design is just... eh.

And yet, I'm still considering it. It's an interesting product, that's for sure.

YeetSkeeterson wrote:You're not just paying $3,500. Those people are paying $5,400 once, and minor amounts for repairs. I'm looking into Decent myself but three versions already? That's $3,500 x 3 - resell amount, technically, if you want the best product they offer.
. $3,500+ for incremental design is just... eh.

Wait, so the lack of innovation of the large manufacturers is somehow a good thing? People who bought the earlier decent models have more capable machines today than the ones they originally paid for. Their ROI is only improving.

No one said that. At some point it does become arbitrary technological innovation for the sake of innovation itself, not necessarily for improvement of espresso in the cup. It becomes psychological.

With the Cafelat Robot, Paul spent 4 years making such a simple device so that when you buy it, there's not a random V2 drop with "improvements".

Note : nothing I've said relates to software.

YeetSkeeterson wrote:You're not just paying $3,500. Those people are paying $5,400 once, and minor amounts for repairs. I'm looking into Decent myself but three versions already? That's $3,500 x 3 - resell amount, technically, if you want the best product they offer.

I owned the Flair PRO, I sold it for that reason after they released the Flair PRO 2. I find incremental releases terribly annoying. I still ended up getting a Flair PRO 2 to try out for $250 new, because I can sell it whenever I want. $3,500+ for incremental design is just... eh.

And yet, I'm still considering it. It's an interesting product, that's for sure.

Most of the time they're trying to keep everything upgrade. Don't want the new group head? That's fine you don't want need it. Want it next year when you get an itch? Buy it for the same price that you could've bought it for initially.

Only thing I can't think of is the extra watts for the steaming which I'm not sure if you could technically upgrade that part if you wanted to. Nevertheless that's only in the V1.0.

It's $3000 shipped so Idk where you are getting the extra $500 unless it's the pro version which for home use you really don't need. You can buy the upgraded shower screen for $30 if you wanted too.

"UPS - Worldwide Express - 12:00 noon delivers within 2 days:
+ Shipping cost: $242.50
+ Tax for United States: $0.00
= $242.50

Get a 10% discount when you buy 5 accessories - $0
Pay now
$3,441.50"

And it's not in stock.

It's in stock on Amazon, $3,650.

Where are you getting $3,000 shipped? Would love to know.

YeetSkeeterson wrote:
Where are you getting $3,000 shipped? Would love to know.

But anyways, this is getting off-topic from the V1.4 thread.

TBH I think the $3k mark is the perfect price for a enthusiastic home barista. Unless you have a well paying job to afford everything you want, I think even the average person can scramble up $3k with some smart saving plans.

PS I think you can find some threads about the Slayer machines needing maintenance. It's not cheap. Same thing with the La Marzocco's. Maybe an owner or someone more experienced can comment those machines also take a pretty penny to keep up if we're talking about 5-8 year ownership.

YeetSkeeterson wrote:No one said that. At some point it does become arbitrary technological innovation for the sake of innovation itself, not necessarily for improvement of espresso in the cup. It becomes psychological.

With the Cafelat Robot, Paul spent 4 years making such a simple device so that when you buy it, there's not a random V2 drop with "improvements".

Note : nothing I've said relates to software.

It's apples and oranges to compare the two like that. It's like comparing a go-cart to a Bugatti. You may be perfectly happy with the Robot and it would be reasonable for you to conclude that you would not find enough of a benefit in the cup to justify something that costs 15x more. But I cannot see the rationale behind this fear of missing out criticism. I don't think people are chasing new models of $3k machines just because the heating element is now 1,500 watts vs 1,350. Most hardware upgrades so far have been backwards compatible anyway (and some they have shipped for free to their earlier customers).

jevenator wrote:image


But anyways, this is getting off-topic from the V1.4 thread.

TBH I think the $3k mark is the perfect price for a enthusiastic home barista. Unless you have a well paying job to afford everything you want, I think even the average person can scramble up $3k with some smart saving plans.

Not interested in that version, only interested in the Pro. Thanks though. Good luck.

Edit: not specific enough, I'd also prefer to have the new grouphead control on whichever unit I ended up with if I do.