Decent has brought a machine to market that very much is a game changer. Obviously even the best intentions sometimes have to change based on the reality of economics. They are a business first and foremost and while the original noble intent would have been amazing to pull off, out the gate it is clear that was just not feasible.

There is nothing on the market for the current price that offers the same level of capability or its promise for easy over the air feature updates.

Fast forward a few years from today and perhaps they might be able to come closer to the original vision, but for now I am very pleased with the DE1+ 1.0 I have.

Exordium01 wrote:Accountable for what? What is it that you feel he owes you exactly?

I'm owed nothing at all, I just see no reason why we should pretend that the reason people got so excited about this product in the beginning was exactly because of the promise of a machine that could deliver what people have had to spend $2500 on for $1000. I don't think there would have been nearly as much excitement and free marketing if that had not been the case. Elon Musk did exactly the same thing, the world simply sat in awe and pre-orders came flying in and they were the talk of the world for a long time that we'd be getting a legitimate EV with real range for $35k, which of course turned out to be totally false in reality. You think they'd have had all the fanfare either if that day of the unveiling he advertised a $50k+ Model 3? Nope.

I think the main difference in perspective in this discussion is that you are focused on why people were excited in the beginning. We are focused on why people are excited now.

I think the main difference in perspective in this discussion is that you are focused on why people were excited in the beginning. We are focused on why people are excited now.

+1

For many of us this project hasn't been on our radar since day one. The fact that it's a shipping product now is what makes it exciting.

I really hope that Decent is successful as I am definitely feel this is an incredible groundbreaking product. For myself, I am focusing on grinder upgrades over the next 6 months and hope to jump in with version 1.3. I suspect that overall home espresso making is a pretty niche market, so ultimately I think that the DE1CAFE unit may be a critical element in their product line if they are to grow and expand. If it works, and is durable, it would greatly expand their potential market compared to just home users. I think the current price point is more than fair for what the product currently delivers. Although I am sure they would capture more users if they offered a less expensive product, I wonder how many people would still choose convenience (i.e. a superauto) anyway. To me it's like the Breville Dual Boiler - it is at that $1000 pricepoint which attracts us hobbyists, but still overall likely has a small market share. Interesting discussion!

sluflyer06 wrote:I'm owed nothing at all, I just see no reason why we should pretend that the reason people got so excited about this product in the beginning was exactly because of the promise of a machine that could deliver what people have had to spend $2500 on for $1000. I don't think there would have been nearly as much excitement and free marketing if that had not been the case. Elon Musk did exactly the same thing, the world simply sat in awe and pre-orders came flying in and they were the talk of the world for a long time that we'd be getting a legitimate EV with real range for $35k, which of course turned out to be totally false in reality. You think they'd have had all the fanfare either if that day of the unveiling he advertised a $50k+ Model 3? Nope.

You're off by close to a factor of 4. You're describing the BDB to a tee. You can already get the features (and quality of shot in the cup) of a $2500 machine in a <$1000 package. There's no reason for Decent Espresso to go there.

The DE1 is targeting the Slayer, which is not a $2500 machine, and they did succeed in bringing the price of a temperature stable, flow profiling machine down to affordable prices. It's a bummer that Lelit isn't willing to take changes on group design, because there's no other real innovation at this price level.

sluflyer06 wrote:I'm owed nothing at all, I just see no reason why we should pretend that the reason people got so excited about this product in the beginning was exactly because of the promise of a machine that could deliver what people have had to spend $2500 on for $1000. I don't think there would have been nearly as much excitement and free marketing if that had not been the case. Elon Musk did exactly the same thing, the world simply sat in awe and pre-orders came flying in and they were the talk of the world for a long time that we'd be getting a legitimate EV with real range for $35k, which of course turned out to be totally false in reality. You think they'd have had all the fanfare either if that day of the unveiling he advertised a $50k+ Model 3? Nope.

There's another point you're getting wrong. In the beginning, there was a DE1 and a DE1+ (I still think these names are terrible)

The DE1, the $1000 machine was to be a straightforward machine for people not obsessed with coffee and all its complexities (like those of us in the forum). This was not a machine to rival what $2500 machines can do, as you say.

The DE1+ would have extra sensors (for temp and flow) and would provide all control and insights we now have. If memory serves me right, this was originally a $2000 offering. (Now priced at $2499)

This information is documented in forum posts and can be seen here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ULTgazuHxhw

The DE1 did exist, and as someone mentioned, perhaps it could be a future offering. However, Decent Espresso realized that the complexity of two different products, seemingly similar but with different part numbers, and two different assembly lines were unrealistic for a small company. So, for some time the DE1 was to be identical in hardware to the DE1+ and the software would be the difference. For many reasons, this also proved unrealistic. The software could be hacked (my thoughts not Decent Espresso's) and the cost would then go up, making it a money-losing proposition.

So, as sales increase and the company grows, who knows, a DE1 could make a comeback. Maybe by then, it will be a DE3.

So, as we judge things years from now, if Decent Espresso delivers a DE1 for $999, did they fail? Would you keep saying that they "completely and utterly failed at their goal of disrupting the market"?
I'm convinced there was zero malice, there was no deliberate ploy to hype a product that they had no intention to deliver. Building something groundbreaking, with so much innovation and with such synergy between software and hardware is just really hard. And takes time, a lot of time.

Just in case you have some other rebuttal. Silence will not imply agreement. We will just have to agree to disagree.

RyanP wrote:I think the main difference in perspective in this discussion is that you are focused on why people were excited in the beginning. We are focused on why people are excited now.

Great point!

I think it's a great product, and from everything I've read, makes fantastic espresso. I just want to make that clear, nothing I've said was meant to imply otherwise. The rest is water under I bridge I guess..

Its ugly, uses android and looks cheap, even the screen graphics look cheap, and above all, has the temporary fragility that comes with all high tech devices, v1, v1.1, v1.2..... and the v1 is now kind of obsolete because most people that buy into these products always want the newest version, in a way its as disposable as an iPhone, yes the iPhone 4s still works, but most want the XS. Nevertheless I think I will order one for my office, the price is good enough to give it a try and see for myself if it changes everything like some people claim in this thread.