Decent Espresso v1.1 shipping! - Page 2

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sluflyer06

Postby sluflyer06 » Jan 28, 2019, 10:44 am

rimblas wrote:Hmm I didn't realize that was that ever an option.


Just like Tesla Model 3, Decent's whole shtick and word of mouth explosion of popularity was the firm promise to deliver a game changing espresso machine that could make espresso as well as or better than the best prosumer machines but at a price of about $999 instead of $2500+.

In the end ( just like Tesla), after much delay, it turns out no they cannot build a machine for less and the buy into even the cheapest Decent requires a roughly equal investment to existing high end prosumer machines.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing what they can do in any way, as I believe they can and do make great espresso, but they completely and utterly failed at their goal of disrupting the market.

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rimblas

Postby rimblas » Jan 28, 2019, 11:01 am

sluflyer06 wrote:Just like Tesla Model 3, Decent's whole shtick and word of mouth explosion of popularity was the firm promise to deliver a game changing espresso machine that could make espresso as well as or better than the best prosumer machines but at a price of about $999 instead of $2500+.

In the end ( just like Tesla), after much delay, it turns out no they cannot build a machine for less and the buy into even the cheapest Decent requires a roughly equal investment to existing high end prosumer machines.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not bashing what they can do in any way, as I believe they can and do make great espresso, but they completely and utterly failed at their goal of disrupting the market.


Ferrariandcoffee wrote:What happened to their $800 lower model units?


No argument regarding the original $1000 plan, I meant "Hmm I didn't realize $800 lower model units was that ever an option.
Just like Tesla, first, you need to make money and have a sustainable business. The complexity of maintaining two different products, as a start-up, was unsustainable.

I'm with Denis, and strongly disagree they completely and utterly failed at their goal of disrupting the market. That's beyond a stretch.

sluflyer06

Postby sluflyer06 » replying to rimblas » Jan 28, 2019, 11:40 am

I disagree, another $2500 machine is not disruptive at all, sure you get some (cool) techy features that a subset of an already very small demographic (home espresso aficionados) will use, profiling for very light roasts. But in the end you are still looking at another set of machines that are outside of most espresso hobbyists budgets and ultimately this machine will appeal primarily to those who would be looking at machines like the Vesuivius, the Mina, Slayer's, etc but either aren't willing to or cannot afford them.

So, in a way, yes you might call it disruptive for a niche of the tiny home espresso market, but game changing overall? No. (Really, if you recall years ago when Decent started posting, we were looking at a machine at the $1k mark that would be rivaling machines at 2.5x the price, THAT is disruptive.)

There are myriad very very good machines on the market with arguably better aesthetics, more reliability history, and features like rotary pumps and dual boilers for the same and often less money than a DE1+.

5280grindz

Postby 5280grindz » Jan 28, 2019, 12:41 pm

Passed on 1.1. I picked up a Synchronika to hold me over until v1.3 comes out. I'm sure there will be optimizations to components but more importantly we'll see how durabiiity shakes out.

There's talk of buttons or a paddle on top of other updates and UL certification.

I'd like to see John work on noise levels from the machine with 1.3. It's a tad too boisterous imo.

RyanP

Postby RyanP » Jan 28, 2019, 3:19 pm

sluflyer06 wrote:I disagree, another $2500 machine is not disruptive at all, sure you get some (cool) techy features that a subset of an already very small demographic (home espresso aficionados) will use, profiling for very light roasts. But in the end you are still looking at another set of machines that are outside of most espresso hobbyists budgets and ultimately this machine will appeal primarily to those who would be looking at machines like the Vesuivius, the Mina, Slayer's, etc but either aren't willing to or cannot afford them.

So, in a way, yes you might call it disruptive for a niche of the tiny home espresso market, but game changing overall? No. (Really, if you recall years ago when Decent started posting, we were looking at a machine at the $1k mark that would be rivaling machines at 2.5x the price, THAT is disruptive.)

There are myriad very very good machines on the market with arguably better aesthetics, more reliability history, and features like rotary pumps and dual boilers for the same and often less money than a DE1+.


Decent has released a machine more advanced and capable of precise control than any other machine out there, with the exception of the Duvall. The cheapest alternative you listed is the Vesuvius at $5k which is 2x the price and is only capable of simple pressure profiles. The next machines you listed cost 4x as much at $10k and still don't touch what the DE1 is capable of doing. Imo, it's very hard to make an argument that the DE1 is anything but game changing and at a fair price.

And to be clear I am not a fanboy. I have the machine and like it, but it's not without its quirks and I think perhaps there are better options out there if you aren't trying to push the most out of difficult light roasts.

Donguanella

Postby Donguanella » Jan 28, 2019, 4:07 pm

Decent has released a machine more advanced and capable of precise control than any other machine out there, with the exception of the Duvall. The cheapest alternative you listed is the Vesuvius at $5k which is 2x the price and is only capable of simple pressure profiles. The next machines you listed cost 4x as much at $10k and still don't touch what the DE1 is capable of doing. Imo, it's very hard to make an argument that the DE1 is anything but game changing and at a fair price.


Exactly. My GS3 got me hooked into this world, but the DE1+ is the first product that gives me the gut same feelings as my first Tesla, or my first iPhone, or my [insert disruptive technology here]. I decided that the rhetoric from these forums (and elsewhere on the internet) seem to be too polarized on the DE1+ to alone make a decision, so I pulled the trigger ordered a V1.1 so I can decide for myself. ETA Mar 1. I definitely have some concerns and initial thoughts, but I'd rather give it a whirl myself. We'll see!

DJF

Postby DJF » Jan 29, 2019, 5:47 am

sluflyer06 wrote:So, in a way, yes you might call it disruptive for a niche of the tiny home espresso market, but game changing overall? No. (Really, if you recall years ago when Decent started posting, we were looking at a machine at the $1k mark that would be rivaling machines at 2.5x the price, THAT is disruptive.)

There are myriad very very good machines on the market with arguably better aesthetics, more reliability history, and features like rotary pumps and dual boilers for the same and often less money than a DE1+.


You're missing tha main point. Nobody said it's perfect but the DE is the most significant coffee machine developement so far this century. You can keep waxing lyrical about analogue machines all you like but the bottom line is when those machines are part of quaint coffee history DE type technology will be dominant.

John Buckman was right in getting out of HB when he did as the trolling hasn't ceased. 4 years and still with the carping on about sub one k machines. Get over it and move on.
"24 hours in a day, 24 beers in a case. Coincidence? I don't think so."
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sluflyer06

Postby sluflyer06 » replying to DJF » Jan 29, 2019, 10:32 am

I don't think it's trolling as much as people holding someone accountable.

blondica73

Postby blondica73 » Jan 29, 2019, 2:24 pm

Denis wrote:There are product/kit that offer you similar control as DE but people have low interest in such things. Most people because they don't have the time or the curiosity prefer one well made complete product, instead of gambling money and making a machine out of pieces.

If you are interested in such a product search caffè!, leva! or ito on google.

Decent espresso is something that the coffee industry needs, something fresh, compact, simply to use, with control over every step of the brew/prebrew. It can be used by anyone, and the look is wonderful. When I see an E61 i just close my eyes, because I don't want to see it anymore.

DE is a machine that is good for someone that just want to press a button and make coffee (automatic mode) and at the same time is fantastic for an enthusiast that is passionate about espresso and wants to control/see every little detail. With the software updates this machine has a bright future, compared to a DB e61.


I placed the order for the product in October and I will try to integrate it into my mini Vivaldi. The only caveat is that the item does not get shipped to the US but to an EU country, I have a family friend who will bring over this week. The item has not been tested in the US.

Exordium01

Postby Exordium01 » Jan 30, 2019, 1:23 am

sluflyer06 wrote:I don't think it's trolling as much as people holding someone accountable.


Accountable for what? What is it that you feel he owes you exactly?