DE1 vs GS3

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HH
Posts: 478
Joined: 7 years ago

#1: Post by HH »

Interesting head-to-head from Sprometheus comparing the GS3 to the DE1. I thought it was a good comparison between the two machines, and liked how he did a blind taste test between the two.

Pressino
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#2: Post by Pressino »

Although I don't own either machine, I really appeciated the unbiased way the reviewer presented their functional and aesthetic differences. I'd like all reviews to be as informative as this one.

My personal preference, if I were going to buy one, would be for the GS3, based on my general preference for simpler electromechanical systems.

JonF
Posts: 241
Joined: 15 years ago

#3: Post by JonF »

That was an interesting video, and something I wish I could do at home. I made the same type of decision about 5 years ago and went with the Decent. Normally I have the chance to compare or test drive my purchases, but espresso machines are a bit of a leap of faith.

For home use, the Decent is hard to beat. Very quick warmup, easy to plumb or easy to fill from the front (can't believe more makers do not come up with easier fill for those of us that place machines under cabinets). No boilers, so each espresso is made with fresh water. The ability to set water temp for my AM Americano rather than use boiler water is great. Steam is adjustable and runs almost forever at constant pressure (unlike my previous dual boiler machine). I mentioned plumbing is easy--but it's also easy to just unplug the external pump and take the machine with you on a trip (doing this right now) and use the water tray instead.

I am the type that does a lot of experimenting, but then settles in on a setting (profile) and uses it almost all the time. So essentially the machine becomes very simple.

On the downside, getting up in the morning and having a tablet glitch is surprisingly frustrating. Rare but it happens, especially when I want my coffee! I still wonder if I might prefer a Linea Mini or Micro. If I had room (which I do not) I would consider an Nurri too.

Interesting to see how many Decent owners add a CT2 just for the contrast. I might do the same . . .

dmacleod
Posts: 13
Joined: 2 years ago

#4: Post by dmacleod »

Thanks for sharing this. I myself am contemplating a move from my GS3 MP to a DE1 PRO. Nice to see the comparison. For my limited home use, I do feel better about moving to Decent now.

GDK
Posts: 254
Joined: 12 years ago

#5: Post by GDK »

That review is very nice, though a single/one shot blind test is not conclusive in IMHO. The test should not be taken with great weight when choosing one or the other. There are ton of other differences that can weigh in.

coffeeyoutoo
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#6: Post by coffeeyoutoo »

People who have only used home espresso machines do not know the disadvantages of vibration pumps.
The disadvantage of the vibration pump is not just the noise; it simply lacks the power to push the coffee.
The difference in power between motors and pumps is familiar to those who work in cafes and bars.
Even in commercial espresso machines that use rotary pumps, there is a clear difference in the force that pushes out very fine grinds even at the same pressure setting depending on the pump capacity and motor output.
Vibration pumps, which are weak in power, use pre-infusion to cope with fine grinding, but rotary pump machines can produce force to push finer grinding into straight 9 bar extraction.
Pre-infusion feels like the taste is rounded out, but in the end, the malty defects are also extracted.
If you can extract it by pushing it without using pre-infusion, that is a much better choice.
This is why most cafe baristas do not use pre-infusion.
For that reason, I think rotary pumps are much better than vibration pumps, even for home use.

JordanK
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#7: Post by JordanK »

coffeeyoutoo wrote: The disadvantage of the vibration pump is not just the noise; it simply lacks the power to push the coffee.
The difference in power between motors and pumps is familiar to those who work in cafes and bars.
Even in commercial espresso machines that use rotary pumps, there is a clear difference in the force that pushes out very fine grinds even at the same pressure setting depending on the pump capacity and motor output.
Vibration pumps, which are weak in power, use pre-infusion to cope with fine grinding, but rotary pump machines can produce force to push finer grinding into straight 9 bar extraction.
I don't think that is correct. They may have more power, I don't know, but regardless I'm not sure it is relevant as both types can produce pressures significantly higher than 9 bar no problem, in fact requiring over-pressure valves to drop it to the desired pressure. Force times area is pressure, and area isn't changing, so both can produce the same necessary force to push water through grinds at the appropriate pressure without issue.

Where higher power would matter would be maintaining high pressure while also at very high flow rates. There rotary pumps may indeed have the advantage, but that is rarely a desirable thing when brewing. In fact turbo shots, with very high flow rates, are intentionally done with greatly reduced pump pressure (not because the pump can't handle the load). For normal brewing, flow rates are pretty low in the grand scheme of plumbing, and both pump types can meet that power demand perfectly well to maintain pressure and flow simultaneously.

Advantages of a rotary as I understand it are: 1) a smoother, more constant pressure delivered; 2) their longevity, with the expected lifetime of a rotary pump far exceeding that of a vibe pump; 3) vibe pumps can't be used with input line pressure for plumbed-in machines; and last but not least, perhaps the most obvious... that you can still hold a normal conversation while a rotary pump is running.

Pressino
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#8: Post by Pressino »

Advantages of a rotary as I understand it are: 1) a smoother, more constant pressure delivered; 2) their longevity, with the expected lifetime of a rotary pump far exceeding that of a vibe pump; and 3) vibe pumps can't be used with input line pressure for plumbed-in machines.

To which I would add: 4) they are much less noisy than vibe pumps....

coffeeyoutoo
Posts: 10
Joined: 2 months ago

#9: Post by coffeeyoutoo »

JordanK wrote:I don't think that is correct. They may have more power, I don't know, but regardless I'm not sure it is relevant as both types can produce pressures significantly higher than 9 bar no problem, in fact requiring over-pressure valves to drop it to the desired pressure. Force times area is pressure, and area isn't changing, so both can produce the same necessary force to push water through grinds at the appropriate pressure without issue.

Where higher power would matter would be maintaining high pressure while also at very high flow rates. There rotary pumps may indeed have the advantage, but that is rarely a desirable thing when brewing. In fact turbo shots, with very high flow rates, are intentionally done with greatly reduced pump pressure (not because the pump can't handle the load). For normal brewing, flow rates are pretty low in the grand scheme of plumbing, and both pump types can meet that power demand perfectly well to maintain pressure and flow simultaneously.

Advantages of a rotary as I understand it are: 1) a smoother, more constant pressure delivered; 2) their longevity, with the expected lifetime of a rotary pump far exceeding that of a vibe pump; and 3) vibe pumps can't be used with input line pressure for plumbed-in machines.

The key is whether you can exert your strength to the end without getting tired when strong resistance is generated at the fine grinding level at the limit.
The force shown at 9 bar on the pressure gauge when you open the valve and let water flow is not everything.
When strong resistance is applied to the actual puck, the rotary pump can push it out without getting tired, and can actually use a finer grinding level than a vibration pump.
Commercial espresso machines are also external and tuned with stronger motors.

JordanK
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#10: Post by JordanK »

Pressino, Yep, figured it went without saying, but edited it in now anyway! The noise is real.

coffeeyoutoo, no pumps don't get "tired." They are machines. Water at 9 bar is at 9 bar, period. That simply is not accurate about different abilities to push through finer grinds. Vibe pumps can generate 12-15 bar for however long you need them to (OK...within reason...) and with relevant flow rates for normal espresso.