Hi HB,

I noticed recently that Clive Coffee is offering the addition of a new flow control device (LUCCA flow control) on some of the E61 espresso machines that they sell (e.g. Profitec Pro 600/700). This is more of a "paddle-style" operation device similar to what is offered on the Lelit Bianca series of machines, which is distinct from the "ball/knob-style" device that is offered directly by Profitec / ECM or added at Whole Latte Love.

I'm wondering if anyone knows of any direct comparisons on the technical specs & user experience of the two different E61 flow control devices on the same make/model of machine.

https://clivecoffee.com/products/lucca-e61-flow-control
https://www.profitec-espresso.com/en/pr ... ventil-e61

I have only used the coffee sensor flow control device which is the ball knob style. The one big difference I see with the ball knob vs paddle is the range of motion. With mine, I can adjust more than 360° for extra fine/precise control. The paddle style might have 180° at most?
But I only use a small range within the 360° though.

i got the ball one too when i had my ecm . i liked it as it can do precise control albeit more turn for full. but i had never had to do more than one full turn as i didn't want that much flow anyways

I also recently started looking into these flow control kits and was thrown off by the many similar, but subtly-different, versions.

I have to admit that from a pure vanity standpoint I'm drawn to the Paddle-style options (such as this one: https://www.coffeegadgetsstudio.com/pro ... achine-mod) but I'm confused as these paddle-style ones would be limited to ~180 Degrees, and in the videos I've seen people are sometimes turning the knob-style ones from 360-to-540 degrees. .... Is this a downside of the paddle-style, or is the greater range of the others just unnecessary?

I've been using the Lelit Bianca, with a paddle style device, for about three years now. The 180 range of motion lets you turn off the flow, and increase it to the same water debit as a standard E61 rotary pump machine (about 7 seconds to the pressure ramping up). It is also enough to stay at 9 bar throughout the shot, if you want that (mostly I don't).

If I need it more open, I can lift the paddle off shaft and use it like a wrench to ratchet it further open (you'll need to loosen the little lock screw in the paddle to do this). This allows me to set the machine as if it had no jet at all, and get it to ramp up to full pressure inside 2 seconds. Occasionally, when I feel like a 1999 Seattle shot, I might do this; but for modern faster and lighter roasts, it's not a great idea.

All in all, I've never been tempted to replace the paddle with the knob. The paddle is less fiddly, and easier to use while watching the flow, shot weight, and pressure gauge, and controlling these.

The Lelit paddle is very easy to use and leaves out any guesswork as to where it's set. All the way to the right - fully open, to the left - fully closed. Controlling it with accuracy is also very easy, unlike for example the La Marzocco GS3 paddle which requires two hands and a lot of effort to control without overshooting your target pressure.

Thanks for the thoughts. Assuming that the operating range on the paddle systems are capable of going from fully closed at zero degrees to relatively high flow at 180 degrees, and that accuracy within this range allows for adequate low flow pre-infusion stages, I think this makes more intuitive sense than a multi-rotation ball/knob mechanism.

I just put in the Coffee Sensor model. Comes with 2 handles -- I like the taller one as keeps fingers away from the hot machine. It does turn about 1 3/4 turns from completely shut to the amount open that matches the flow previous to the install. Seems well made and thought out. Amazingly it got to CA 4 days after I ordered it -- as promised -- shipped from Romania (where they are). I like! Seems to me that more range of control is not a bad thing. BTW good idea to measure flow prior to installing as a way to set "normal" flow with the flow control installed, if that makes sense.

ARockwell wrote:I also recently started looking into these flow control kits and was thrown off by the many similar, but subtly-different, versions.

I have to admit that from a pure vanity standpoint I'm drawn to the Paddle-style options (such as this one: https://www.coffeegadgetsstudio.com/pro ... achine-mod) but I'm confused as these paddle-style ones would be limited to ~180 Degrees, and in the videos I've seen people are sometimes turning the knob-style ones from 360-to-540 degrees. .... Is this a downside of the paddle-style, or is the greater range of the others just unnecessary?

Use a 3/4 turn range by setting the full close to "10:30" and the "logical" full open to "1:30".

The point is that all the "action" happens in the zone close to the start - every millimeter of movement there is important. For example, the difference between "9:00" and "7:30" is more important than between "7:30" and a full physical opening.

Any range less than 1 turn is intuitive - just look at the paddle and you can see "where you are". But 1 full turn is already problematic because it is not immediately clear whether the valve is closed completely or open by 1 turn. Same with even more opening - is it 1/4 or 1 1/4? That's why the 3/4 range seems ideal.

The only difference between the "logical" full opening (3/4 turn) and the physical full opening (1 3/4 - 2 turns) is that with the latter the maximum pressure in the group will be reached 1-2 seconds faster (or even in a fraction of a second - I haven't measured). This is of no practical importance.

Even a slightly lower range is quite sufficient, as on the Lelit Bianca, where the knob touches the housing at the 10 o'clock and 2 o'clock positions. In fact, even half a turn would be enough (maybe even a third).