Commercial espresso machines in the home - Page 2

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Have you considered a commercial espresso machine for home use?

Yes
146
85%
No
24
14%
Other (explain)
1
1%
 
Total votes: 171

billt
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#11: Post by billt »

FWIW I have a commercial machine, an Iberital L'Adri one group, 6l boiler, 2.4 kw heater with volumetric dosing. When I got it I measured the power consumption, because I thought that it would be a bit excessive!

In its original state it consumed about 7kwhr a day. Insulating the boiler reduced that to 4.5 kwhr per day, and putting it on a timer reduced it further to about 2.5 kwhr a day. That's still a lot of wasted energy, may be 2-3 times the amount a smaller machine would use, but it's worth it for the excellent coffee that it produces with very little effort.

Bill

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timo888 (original poster)

#12: Post by timo888 (original poster) »

Ken Fox wrote:You could say the same thing about everything we do in modern day life...
Exactly.

Regards
Timo

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timo888 (original poster)

#13: Post by timo888 (original poster) »

HB wrote:Debating the energy savings among espresso machines weighing at least 60 pounds?
Speaking of dated designs... the ur-design that caused the difficulty was the one that merged rather than separated the heating of water for brewing and the heating of water for steaming milk. But today there are new choices which abandon this old design, choices both at the high end of the price range and also in the mid-range.

The La Spaziale doubler-boiler machine has a brew boiler of only 450ml, and it can be used without having to turn the steam boiler on if what you want is a straight espresso. It also has a lighter weight stainless steel group, which means it can reach temperature-stability much more quickly than a machine with a massive brass group, so it does not have to be left on round-the-clock or turned on hours in advance of use. Stainless steel draws out far less heat from the water. Since water leaves the La Spaz dedicated brew boiler not superheated but much closer to brew temperature, there is no need for a megalodon brass heat sink.

Now that is a machine optimized for the home-barista rather than the caterer or small coffee shop.

Regards
Timo

podo98

#14: Post by podo98 »

timo888 wrote:The La Spaziale doubler-boiler machine has a brew boiler of only 450ml, and it can be used without having to turn the steam boiler on if what you want is a straight espresso. It also has a lighter weight stainless steel group, which means it can reach temperature-stability much more quickly than a machine with a massive brass group, so it does not have to be left on round-the-clock or turned on hours in advance of use. Stainless steel draws out far less heat from the water. Since water leaves the La Spaz dedicated brew boiler not superheated but much closer to brew temperature, there is no need for a megalodon brass heat sink.

Now that is a machine optimized for the home-barista rather than the caterer or small coffee shop.

Go ahead, keep lauding the virtues of a machine that is out of stock for the next six weeks. :cry:

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timo888 (original poster)

#15: Post by timo888 (original poster) »

podo98 wrote:Go ahead, keep lauding the virtues of a machine that is out of stock for the next six weeks. :cry:
Well, you were the one who brought it up in the first place :wink:

Regards
Timo

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HB
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#16: Post by HB »

timo888 wrote:Now that is a machine optimized for the home-barista rather than the caterer or small coffee shop.
Indeed, many high-end espresso machines have more capacity than needed and consume more energy than necessary for the humble purpose of producing 2-3 espressos per day. To see how extreme the membership considers the idea of a commercial espresso machine in the home, I've created a poll for this thread.
Dan Kehn

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timo888 (original poster)

#17: Post by timo888 (original poster) »

HB wrote:It also depends if the particular machine's boiler is insulated, how much of its group is exposed to ambient air, etc. The thread Leave it on, or turn it off? covers the advantages/disadvantages of 24/7 operation. For what it's worth, I don't run my espresso equipment 24/7 and my previous estimates of the associated electrical costs amounted to a few dollars a month.
billt's uninsulated 6 liter machine consumed 7 kWh per day. In the Philadelphia area, that would be close to $34 per month for electricity for the espresso machine, over $400 per year.

Regards
Timo

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PaulTheRoaster

#18: Post by PaulTheRoaster »

FWIW, if you like rebuilding old machines as a hobby, it's generally easier and cheaper to work on big commercial machines than alternatives. Of course plenty of folks do that and then use small home machines daily. I run a Faema 1-group for an hour a day and use a tiny lever in the evenings when I feel like more coffee. On the other hand, when I get my gigantic 2-group lever running, I'll have to think about this. On the third hand, it's probably far worse for the earth to drive one extra mile once a day to get an espresso out.

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Sleepless

#19: Post by Sleepless »

HB wrote:PS: For those reading along, Koyaanisqatsi means 'life of moral corruption and turmoil, life out of balance' in the Hopi language (wikipedia).
I saw the movie when it first came out in theaters (damn, I feel old!)

- Steve

ericpmoss

#20: Post by ericpmoss »

My back-of-envelope calculation for use is:

Cimbali 2-group: 4200W

24x7: 4200 * 24 ~ 100kWh/day * $0.05/kWh = $5/day

So with 24/7 operation, you will never recoup the cost of your two capps/day, let alone the cost of the machine and maintenance and water purifier and its upkeep. Support your local dealer instead. ;)


12x7 (2 hours to warm up, then on 10 hours (one use at breakfast, one at dinner) ~ $2.50/day

Here you need drink 2 capps a day, assuming free ingredients, for only the next 6 years to recoup the energy cost if it stays stable. Then there's the machine and maintenance and so on. Your first call should be under $500 or so, so that's only 7 more months of drinking to recoup. Not bad...


I guess it starts to maybe make sense if you can get a commercial one-group at eBay prices that doesn't need a ton of fixup. Frankly, I'd recommend that reconditioned Cremina fullsack offered on eBay a few weeks back. And a good water system and great beans. It's actually possible to get better results and repay the effort within one's lifetime. :)

Eric