Clarification with plumb line (pics included)

Need help with equipment usage or want to share your latest discovery?
DavidO

#1: Post by DavidO »

Edit: completion pics on page 2

I seem to recall posting not too long ago (yesterday, perhaps lol), that I wasn't interested in a plumb line. And here we are. I wasn't interested in drilling a hole through a granite countertop, but after looking at the setup and location, I'm hoping this works as well. Here are the relevant pictures of my setup:


(from valance to floor tile, it's all BEHIND/HIDDEN, if that isn't clear from the pic)

Instead of going down through the counter, is this an acceptable path for the line? The reason I went UP and over is because I don't want to drill a hole through the cabinet board adjacent to the fridge. This nook is in the corner of the kitchen, and all of the line will be hidden from view unless you are directly in front of it (also hidden by grinder and toaster oven).

Or does this look silly, having a line go UP. Perhaps I should just buck up and go straight across? I suppose that will also depend on what line to use, more below. Machine is 'To Be Determined' :), but I am leaning toward Expobar Brewtus IV-R (price, service dealer nearby, etc).



And this is a cross section view. Basement is "semi" unfinished (and staying that way), 2x4s and electric and make shift flooring, but otherwise exposed. I put the filter on the side of the sink instead of the machine, because directly below the machine I have an entertainment unit and plugs/powerbars - would rather there be no connections here in case of leaks.

Filter is BWT, and all connections are 3/8. Under the current setup pictured (assuming I go up and over), I'm guessing roughly 22-23 feet of tubing is required.

There is already a line run for my fridge, but it's not in use

Here is a picture of under the sink:


So, with all that out of the way, my questions:

1. Because the filter needs 3/8 tubing, as well as the espresso machine, it makes more sense to use 3/8 for the WHOLE LENGTH, correct? I'd rather have less connections than more (converting to the thinner 1/4, if that's even a good idea anyway since I am choosing a ROTARY machine).

2. The current T in the line under the sink, is it easy to change to a 3/8? (You can see a 3/8 on the hot for the dishwasher). Does it need a new T or it can be removed at the nut just after?

3. I imagine I also require some kind of flow meter, or better yet, pressure regulator (or both? or combined in one unit?). Flow meter to see how much water has passed through the filter in the event I need to change it before the 12 month max (gotta protect the beauty ya know). Is a pressure regulator even required when 3/8 tubing is used in a rotary machine? These would go in between the filter and machine line, correct? It's OK if the regulator is still roughly 20 feet away, or should it be closer to machine?

4. Should I use that flexible steel tubing for all the runs, or something else? I'm comfortable with home tasks, just not too familiar with plumbing.

5. Is one shut off valve under the sink enough? Maybe add another shut off because I believe I would need to prime a new filter without it being connected to the espresso machine (does that make sense?)

6. Anything else I missed? Anything else I should add to the line?
Yes, I know no drain line. One thing at a time (what I'm looking at, Brewtus, has a 96oz drip tray, so that should cover me for now).

Muchos Gracias! :)
Dave

DavidO (original poster)

#2: Post by DavidO (original poster) »

I know it might make more sense to put the filter under the sink. Depending on how much room I have, that is a consideration. It's kind of tight there but I will try to accommodate that if it makes more sense.

ira
Team HB

#3: Post by ira »

I might consider having the line go up behind the machine. Once it's up, its hidden under or inside the cabinet. I might also consider Swagelock fitting and stainless tubing for the run from behind the machine to behind the fridge. Just because it might look better.

Ira

TxHr

#4: Post by TxHr »

Drill from the refrigerator and put the line inside the cabinet. You can then drill a hole behind your espresso machine and inside your cabinet, keeping the two holes in the same vertical axis. You will be able to fish your water supply to the machine and a drain from the machine to a discharge bucket in the cabinet. You will not need to cut granite and have a functional application.


Brandon

DavidO (original poster)

#5: Post by DavidO (original poster) »

Thank you for the insight guys. I couldn't find John Guest connectors where I am, but another 'quick connect' type are called "SharkBite" and are the same concept. So I have the water line covered and yes, it's not as difficult as I imagined.

BUT, believe it or not, I'm now thinking of also adding a drain line while I'm at it. :)

I'm comfortable with the drain piping, seeing as I had to replace the entire drain system under my sink by myself, and I'm only about 12 feet away from the main sink drain pipe in my basement (so I can route 1.5" PVC and y into that drain).

However, I still have that 4-5 feet horizontal line on my countertop. Is there anything I can do to solve this? Is there a kind of "pump" that pushes the water along this short distance? Since I don't want to drill a hole into the countertop, I can't immediately drop down.

Seeing my pics above, I can either make the drain trap in the basement or route to the bottom cabinet (through the fridge side), build the trap there and route down towards the basement. But I still have to contend with that 4-5 feet of horizontal line on the countertop.

Any ideas? Or is this the inherent downside of home drain systems?

User avatar
cannonfodder
Team HB

#6: Post by cannonfodder »

Yes, use 3/8 PEX end to end. Your supply volume will only be as high as the smallest part of the system. One 1/4 inch piece of line nullifies the entire system. You will want a pressure regulator just before the machine.
Dave Stephens

DavidO (original poster)

#7: Post by DavidO (original poster) » replying to cannonfodder »

Thanks. Does the pressure regulator have to be JUST before the machine? Or could it be near (after) the filtration system ~ 12-15' away?

Is the pressure regulator critical with rotary systems, or just a way to safely regulate pressure instead of guessing its correct? Since the line is coming from the same line as the kitchen sink, that means using the kitchen faucet at the same time would reduce the pressure of the water feeding the espresso machine too, correct?

TxHr

#8: Post by TxHr »

DavidO wrote:However, I still have that 4-5 feet horizontal line on my countertop. Is there anything I can do to solve this? Is there a kind of "pump" that pushes the water along this short distance? Since I don't want to drill a hole into the countertop, I can't immediately drop down.

Seeing my pics above, I can either make the drain trap in the basement or route to the bottom cabinet (through the fridge side), build the trap there and route down towards the basement. But I still have to contend with that 4-5 feet of horizontal line on the countertop.

Any ideas? Or is this the inherent downside of home drain systems?
You need 1/8" drop per foot of run for a drain function properly. Also, tapping into a drain will require a p trap to ensure no sewer gasses enter the house.

In an earlier post, I recommended drilling a hole in the wall just behind he espresso machine and another in the cabinet, just under the hole behind the machine. This will allow you to route your supply and drain. Inside the cabinet, you can install the p trap and pvc with the proper 1/8" drop and ultimately drop your line into the basement.

I wouldn't recommend using a pump, as the coffee grounds are inherently in the bottom of a drip tray and will negatively affect the pump's performance. As a last resort, you could install a pan or bucket in a cabinet under the espresso machine. You will want to find a pan large enough to hold a week's worth of waste the waste. Most people perform a deep cleaning of their machine weekly and this would be an opportune time to dump and clean the drain pan.


Good luck!

Brandon

DavidO (original poster)

#9: Post by DavidO (original poster) » replying to TxHr »

Unfortunately, there is a stone backsplash on the wall there as well, so going through the wall behind the machine is not an option either. I could move the machine closer to the wood divider adjacent to the fridge - that way, the horizontal line would only be 2-3 feet. Should improve it somewhat.

I thought about adding a large container underneath, in the counter. Big enough like you said to warrant a weekly dump, but I'd still have the issue of build up in that horizontal run. Almost makes me want to do something silly like add a small y on the short 3 foot horiztontal run so I can 'snake' that section with a clothes hanger. :) Part of routine cleaning ;) ... I wish I was setup more efficiently to make this simple.

Edit: I wonder if I could separate that horizontal run with a sort of quick connect where it goes vertical. That way, I can systematically remove that small section for routine cleaning - the only place where it would build up. Hmmmm...

DavidO (original poster)

#10: Post by DavidO (original poster) »

Quick question regarding the WATER LINE.

It occurred to me when purchasing supplies that if I need 3/8 tubing, that's the OD only right (usually says 1/4 ID). Having a rotary pump, do I require a 3/8 ID tubing?