Brew pressure profiling: Does it make a worthwhile difference?

#1: Post by **Normie** » November 12th, 2018, 11:43 am

Hello,

I wasn't sure quite where to post this, as I intend it simply as a discussion piece. I personally don't own a pressure profiling machine, but have certainly had some pulled by professional baristas. My impression (without having been able to sit down and play with one personally and thus being at the mercy of the barista) was that it was hard to determine whether or not the pressure profile made an appreciable difference in the cup; it seemed more hit or miss to me in that even the best equipment can't overcome an average barista. Or to say it another way, I've had both good and bad shots on pressure profiling machines and so I can't really judge it one way or another.

So, perhaps some people who have more experience with it than me, or maybe some of you who own this calibre of machine can speak to this- is the ability to pressure profile truly worth the cost upgrade, or is it more of a gimmick?

And so I'm being transparent, I may tend to be more skeptical about things than not (not just in the espresso world), but I'm not taking a side one way or another; I simply don't know.

#2: Post by **happycat** » November 12th, 2018, 10:10 pm

Pressure profiling advice needed for a novice

Dominico on the first page lists a handful of rules of thumb.

#3: Post by **mrjag** » November 13th, 2018, 11:26 am

I have been playing with this for a week and my tentative answer is that I prefer normal shots over profiled shots. I will caveat with the fact that I'm still fairly new to profiling and could be lacking the skills to extract the best of what there is to offer in a profiled shot. I've also only tried out one batch of beans, so maybe lighter or darker roasts benefit more from profiling than what I'm using.

I haven't pulled any god shots yet, but they have all been good. There is a definite tenancy towards enhanced chocolate and nut flavor profiles. This particular bean blend I'm working with never had any floral notes, but when pulled just right (using the classic method) there was a hint of blueberry. Despite my best attempts, I haven't been able to find the blueberry in the profiled shots yet.

What I do find interesting is that the profiled shots are extremely forgiving. In a classically pulled shot it doesn't take much variation in your shot prep to alter the timing and taste of a shot. With a profiled shot, I'm finding that little mistakes in prep don't have as much of an impact on the resulting taste.

November 13th, 2018, 12:18 pm

happycat wrote:Pressure profiling advice needed for a novice

Dominico on the first page lists a handful of rules of thumb.

Thank you for pointing out this gem!

I recently started a slow ramp up of pressure and noticed a faster flow. At first I thought it was the aging of the beans but it was too big a difference. Then I saw this in your link above, "A slow ramp up of pressure will cause a faster overall flow (i.e. allow you to grind finer if you wish)"

I can't believe how much of a difference this makes! It really allows you to grind much finer. (I'm using Mono Flat SSP RedSpeed and Cremina).

#5: Post by **DaveC** » November 13th, 2018, 12:22 pm

Normie wrote:So, perhaps some people who have more experience with it than me, or maybe some of you who own this calibre of machine can speak to this- is the ability to pressure profile truly worth the cost upgrade, or is it more of a gimmick?

If you have the knowledge to use pressure profiling to your advantage then it's worthwhile. If you don't or can't make the time to learn,don't bother. A pressure profile machine can be programmed to respond exactly the same s a non pressure profile machine and then you can gradually step into it as you understand it more.

A few things to think about....as the "rules" change when using a pressure profiling machine. One example of this might extraction pressure of 9 bar, why is this, well it's probably a good average to use. However it might be great to have 10.5 or 11 bar during the early part of the extraction and less pressure as it progresses. The profiling machine allows you to overcome many of these "spanish customs" (out of necessity) of espresso making. Another could be preinfusion, E61, Piston systems on non E61 machines etc..You can only do so much and were limited by the mechanical systems, with a profiler, you can do much more.

It's an exploration of what's possible, but it's not for everyone....and for those without the knowledge, skill or willingness to experiment, then they are probably better of getting a dual boiler and producing coffee on "standard settings", as it's quite possible to make shots worse with bad profiling.

#6: Post by **another_jim** » November 13th, 2018, 1:29 pm

I come to profiling as a lever user. From this perspective, there is no such thing as "profiled versus non-profiled shots." There's just machines where you can work the shot and machines where you can't. Trust me, once you get used to working the shots in real time; you don't want to go back to just standing there while the shot turns to crap.

#7: Post by **pcrussell50** » November 13th, 2018, 2:35 pm

Yes, pulling on a direct-pull lever is quite the thing. Natural as can be. It almost becomes second nature to watch the extraction and your pull just adjusts automatically in kind. Tactile feel of what's actually happening as the extractables leave the puck, coordontaing with what the eyes see coming out the basket. My levers don't have the temperature stability of my techno whiz-bang pump machine, but it's not unpleasant to work within their inherent heat curves to get a semblance of the temperature you want. And higher end levers will not suffer even this.

-Peter

November 14th, 2018, 8:10 pm

Perhaps next time I'll go with a lever, my dad started force feeding me shots off his ca. 1989 La Pavoni when I was about 12 years old... and now here I am.

November 14th, 2018, 8:37 pm

another_jim wrote:I come to profiling as a lever user. From this perspective, there is no such thing as "profiled versus non-profiled shots." There's just machines where you can work the shot and machines where you can't. Trust me, once you get used to working the shots in real time; you don't want to go back to just standing there while the shot turns to crap.

As I think my previous comment through, would a lever be less prone to mechanical issues? Maybe a more simple design? Less to go wrong.

November 14th, 2018, 9:28 pm

Levers are less complex than any pump machine, so routine maintenance is simpler. However, all hobbyists take care of their own machines, since trucking things back and forth is nuts. So once you know what's what, it's pretty much a wash.