Breville Dual Boiler vs. Oracle/Oracle Touch

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danks

#1: Post by danks »

Hi,
Which machine does have the highest level of output consistency?
I have Oracle Touch and it gives different amount of output in each and every shot though I use the internal grinder and same amount of coffee.

Do you think BDB would do better as grinder is external and it would not be effected of that issue?

Thanks.

baldheadracing
Team HB

#2: Post by baldheadracing »

They're the same espresso machine underneath.

The grinder/doser/tamper is the weak point on the older Oracles. Unfortunately, very little is known about the new Etzinger burrs that are found on the latest production of Oracles.

You're seeing differences caused by limitations on the grinder side. As an example, the dose is timed, not weighed, so the actual dose depends on how many beans there are in the hopper. the grinder decides to stop dosing. ETA: upon further review, the stopping algorithm appears to consider the depth of the tamped dose.
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

danks (original poster)

#3: Post by danks (original poster) »

Then how oracle always output 21gr into the portafilter? Isnt it weight managed?
I have a new oracle touch and will check the burr whether it is new type or no.
However, would you say a BDB coupled with a decent grinder would overtake a oracle touch?

And any idea about breville smart grinder pro? Would it be considered as a decent grinder?
Thanks for your replies.

baldheadracing
Team HB

#4: Post by baldheadracing »

The Smart Grinder Pro uses the same as the grinder mechanism as the Oracle. As such, there are many other grinder options available at a wide variety of (higher) price points. However, a separate grinder also means that the user now has to learn how to dose, distribute, and tamp, as how well these tasks are performed will strongly affect results.

Opinions vary on the Smart Grinder Pro as a grinder. It does offer a lot of features for the money. Perhaps it isn't fair to compare it to what I would consider a budget "decent grinder" like a Niche Zero at about three times the price, but I think that you get what you pay for.

The Oracle doesn't weigh, as shown here:
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada

danks (original poster)

#5: Post by danks (original poster) »

I see all point you've mentioned and just would like to ask whether inconsistency caused of heat affecting internal grinder and beans for machines like oracle, barista express etc. And would having a separate grinder(proper grinding and dosing) and tamping to the best with BDB machine result in having constant or at least very little inconsistent results?
Or I need to change the machine as well?

Thanks,

BaristaBob

#6: Post by BaristaBob »

I've owned a BDB for over 6 years and coupled with a high end grinder my extractions are very, very consistent. I weigh my beans before and after grinding, and then weigh my extraction yield. Take the coffee I'm drinking currently. I dose 18.0g +/- 0.1g and my yield in the cup is 36g in 30 sec. +/- 0.2 sec. over the last 20 cups.

Can't say whether the Oracle has that same level of consistency as the BDB, but others have said they have the same internals.
Bob "hello darkness my old friend..I've come to drink you once again"

baldheadracing
Team HB

#7: Post by baldheadracing »

danks wrote:I see all point you've mentioned and just would like to ask whether inconsistency caused of heat affecting internal grinder and beans for machines like oracle, barista express etc. And would having a separate grinder(proper grinding and dosing) and tamping to the best with BDB machine result in having constant or at least very little inconsistent results?
Or I need to change the machine as well?

Thanks,
All grinders heat up after multiple shots, but I don't think that being an internal grinder is a major factor to dissipating that heat. An example of a major factor is the physical burr size. The Oracle is designed for home use and doesn't have the burr size nor the fans or other cooling solutions used in large commercial grinders (nor does it need them unless you're hosting dinner parties).

I am not familiar with the controls of the Oracle Touch but the old Oracle had a "manual override" feature that one could use to aid in consistency of output. (The machine has a flow meter, and the results of measuring output with such a flowmeter will vary.)
-"Good quality brings happiness as you use it" - Nobuho Miya, Kamasada