New BDB owner here (see my previous thread on initial issues/impressions).

Now that I've had three days with this machine I'm quite confused over how it keeps wanting significantly different grind settings. What I mean is that once I get it dialed in on a specific bag of beans, the next time I come back (say, the next morning), that setting is not only off, it's wildly off. Like 4 full turns of the worm gear on my Macap M4.

For example, this morning my first shot was channeling like mad, just pouring out, so I presumed I had distributed or tamped poorly. I tried again and got the same result. So I tightened the grind a bit, and it got a little better. Took two more shots before I had tightened the grind 4 or more turns on the Macap, and finally it's close (actually I'll have to tighten it more on next shot). Overall it took me 5 or 6 shots to dial in.

But I already had this bag dialed in yesterday at 5pm, about 18 hours ago. And I had something similar happen from Friday to Saturday. What's going on? This is the same bag of beans (Hayes Valley from Blue Bottle) and it's about 7 days post roast. I've been making espresso consistently for years now, I weigh my dose, distribute w/ WDT... What's changed for me is the machine (from a Silvia), and I've never seen this much change from day to day until I set up the BDB.

Any ideas appreciated.

What settings are you using for Hayes Valley?

For Hayes Valley, you should be using the following:

Dose: 20g
Yield: ~ 20g
Time: ~ 32s
Temp: 202f (BB recommends 201.5f)
PI Time: 0

Also, how are you storing the beans? Hayes is pretty oily and dark which cause them to dry out and require dialing in daily if not multiple times per day in my experience.

EDIT: I am not sure what scale you have but if you have one that has a companion app I'd recommend keeping track of flow as well and shoot for something like this:

I've been going for more volume than Blue Bottle recommends, more like 30g of extraction on an 18g dose over 30s (not including pre-infusion time) at 201f. So about 37s total with the pre-infusion defaults on the Breville. That's what I've been doing for a while (w/ my Silvia) and I like it that way. I'm storing my beans in an dark plastic vacuum container (one of these).

But interesting on your saying 0s on pre-infusion. The card that BB sends with the beans didn't mention that. I wonder if pre-infusion is causing me some issues? I didn't have any problem on the Silvia, though I don't know how it handles pre-infusion (e.g. not sure what it does w/ pressure). Either way, it sounds like you're saying Hayes Valley is the cause of the variance? This makes sense (vs. the machine) ... it's just that the machine is new for me and the beans are not, thus my head scratching.

My scale is a cheapo ... it measure 0.1g increments but no companion app. That said, I do watch the flow visually and shoot for consistency there as well (or, perhaps more accurately, I judge my grind/dose/distribution/tamp based on a visual analysis of flow).

OP...
Distilling your first post: on day one you are dialed in, and the next morning (day two), it's requiring four full turns of your grinder adjustment (unfamiliar with your grinder... assuming here that that is a lot of adjustment). Once done, does it stay that way for day three? Or require four turns back to where it was on day one? Or four more turns tighter still than day two?

An espresso machine should pump into a solid obstruction like a blind basket, at a steady pressure. Part of every baristas tool kit should be a blind basket, not just for back flushing, but for testing pump or system health. They're just a few bucks (under five), from places like esspressoparts.com. If yours does not, you have grounds (pun intended) for a claim.

If your machine can hold a steady pressure into a blind basket, your inconsistency likely lies somewhere else.

-Peter

forgetcolor wrote: ... it's just that the machine is new for me and the beans are not, thus my head scratching.

Hey forgetcolor,

One way to make sure your BDB is behaving like it should, day in and day out, is to perform a water only back flush routine at the end of the day or after your last shot of the day. With the blind screen in place, perform this quick procedure used by Phil McKnight (lead designer and head guru for the BDB)...see link below. Once you do the 3 to 4 flushes, look at the pressure gauge...it should hold steady at 9 bars (or whatever your opv is set at). Like Peter said, if it's not back to where it usually is the machine might be your problem, if it's holding the normal high pressure setting, look elsewhere for the inconsistency.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TpSSSYpq1I

Hope that helps!

forgetcolor wrote:I've been going for more volume than Blue Bottle recommends, more like 30g of extraction on an 18g dose over 30s (not including pre-infusion time) at 201f. So about 37s total with the pre-infusion defaults on the Breville. That's what I've been doing for a while (w/ my Silvia) and I like it that way. I'm storing my beans in an dark plastic vacuum container (one of these).

But interesting on your saying 0s on pre-infusion. The card that BB sends with the beans didn't mention that. I wonder if pre-infusion is causing me some issues? I didn't have any problem on the Silvia, though I don't know how it handles pre-infusion (e.g. not sure what it does w/ pressure). Either way, it sounds like you're saying Hayes Valley is the cause of the variance? This makes sense (vs. the machine) ... it's just that the machine is new for me and the beans are not, thus my head scratching.

My scale is a cheapo ... it measure 0.1g increments but no companion app. That said, I do watch the flow visually and shoot for consistency there as well (or, perhaps more accurately, I judge my grind/dose/distribution/tamp based on a visual analysis of flow).

Turn off the PI. That will solve your issue I bet. BB does not use PI. Even on their Kees machines they have, it turned off to 0.

Also 2:1 ratio is fine but I feel like it's a bit overextracted and I prefer the ristretto shot. At the end of the day don't listen to what anyone says is best and go off what tastes best to you.

I am not familiar with your grinder but are you measuring (via scale) the amount (18g) in and out (when grinding)?

I'll try 0 pre-infusion tomorrow, see how it goes. Will also try shortening up the volume a bit.

Yes, I'm measuring beans on the grinder input (more than needed) and then trimming it up to 18g using the scale after it's ground. So it should be pretty consistent there.

Perfect. Hopefully, this helps solve the issue. Once you get it dialed in you can play around with PI and water knob profiling. This is Hayes with profiling and OPV set to 7-bar.

You are seriously pulling a 60 second long shot?

True story. It tasted amazing as well.