Breville Dual Boiler Mods and Maintenance - Page 36

Need help with equipment usage or want to share your latest discovery?
scotthue

#351: Post by scotthue »

pcrussell50 wrote:There should be a serial number on the bottom and one inside the water tank cavern. The second one might be imprinted rather than a sticker. Or it may not. They should all match.

as a sanity check, look upwards at the bottom lip around the group, should be four Phillips screws. Also, take the top cover off and put the screws aside for safe keeping. The top cover is heavy and stays down on it's own. And that way you can remove it for service or inspection just by lifting it off. The steam boiler should have three tube nuts on top rather than being all hairpin clips. Those are the latest hardware updates I'm aware of.
Thanks Peter.

The bottom of the machine has an imprint of 1721 (hard to see without investigating, so thanks for the suggestion), and the inside has the hairpin clips confirming that it's not of the newest vintage. The grouphead has four phillips screws around the lip. I couldn't seem to find anything inside the water tank area except the SKU I posted above, so I can't confirm the 2017 build date via that strategy, but it seems unlikely that the imprint on the bottom could be wrong.

The thing definitely doesn't look new. I'm curious to see what the shot count says once I get it up and running.

pcrussell50 (original poster)

#352: Post by pcrussell50 (original poster) »

The four Phillips screws is a key one imho, because with that, the frangible inserts are quick cheap and easy to replace. So that's kind of a biggie.

As to the hairpin clips, I consider that less of a deal. Because while being more leak prone, they are right on top and super easy to change, especially if you have to top cover screws out. If they have not corroded in place from bad water, it's literally a one minute job, per o-ring. So while you wait, maybe pull a clip and see if they come out easily. And put back with a tiny dab of food safe or low reactivity lube. Silicone like Dow 111 or swimming pool grease are good because they are resistant to washing out and don't melt at espresso temperatures. Don't get it on your clothes. It won't wash out even in hot water and with detergent.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

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pape

#353: Post by pape »

A quick introduction, I am a 7-year dual boiler user. I started with a refurbished 900A, replaced under warranty with a 900B sent in after warranty for a repair and ended up with a 920XL. Anyway I have done many seal replacements over the years, did the steam valve and the brass pump/OPV mod.

A few weeks ago the steam valve started to get hard to open, turns out steam was leaking from where the handle attaches. I went to repair that and the screw that holds the handle on was completely corroded. I drilled the screw out and was able to repair the steam valve.

I noticed a few of the steam boiler rings were leaking went to replace them, both with hoses were corroded in place, soaked them in vinegar, one came out the next day, the other I broke off the hose and the fitting fell in the boiler. I was able to get the brass ring out that was stuck in the boiler, but I damaged it in the process. I then got the boiler out of the machine and was able to use some shaking to get the piece that had fallen in out.

I looked through all the threads and I didn't see if it was possible to buy the brass retaining? ring (see picture) separately, is there a source for these?
Anyone know if it would be possible to get a replacement hose from Breville or possibly the new boiler (since I have it out) with the threaded fittings and the hoses?
All my sensors are leaking at the top too and I saw it is possible to get replacements, which is a good sign.

I started browsing for replacement machines but you guys make me think I would be making a mistake!



Thanks,
Lee

scotthue

#354: Post by scotthue »

pcrussell50 wrote: As to the hairpin clips, I consider that less of a deal. Because while being more leak prone, they are right on top and super easy to change, especially if you have to top cover screws out. If they have not corroded in place from bad water, it's literally a one minute job, per o-ring. So while you wait, maybe pull a clip and see if they come out easily. And put back with a tiny dab of food safe or low reactivity lube. Silicone like Dow 111 or swimming pool grease are good because they are resistant to washing out and don't melt at espresso temperatures. Don't get it on your clothes. It won't wash out even in hot water and with detergent.
An update on my machine. I finally got a water tank, so I can start playing with things. Mine is a sprayer! O-rings are on order from amazon to get here this weekend. Thanks to this thread for such helpful info!

pcrussell50 (original poster)

#355: Post by pcrussell50 (original poster) »

G'day Lee.
pape wrote:A quick introduction, I am a 7-year dual boiler user. I started with a refurbished 900A, replaced under warranty with a 900B sent in after warranty for a repair and ended up with a 920XL. Anyway I have done many seal replacements over the years, did the steam valve and the brass pump/OPV mod.
How do you like the brass mod? The original Ulka pump in the BDB is 51W or so. The common bras pump is 41W. BUT you can also get the 51W brass pump. Do you know which one you have?
pape wrote:A few weeks ago the steam valve started to get hard to open, turns out steam was leaking from where the handle attaches. I went to repair that and the screw that holds the handle on was completely corroded. I drilled the screw out and was able to repair the steam valve.
It's an o-ring a -008 (the only -008 in the machine) that seals the steam valve's knob. Is that what you used? If not, go back and put a fresh -008 in there.
pape wrote:I noticed a few of the steam boiler rings were leaking went to replace them, both with hoses were corroded in place, soaked them in vinegar, one came out the next day, the other I broke off the hose and the fitting fell in the boiler. I was able to get the brass ring out that was stuck in the boiler, but I damaged it in the process. I then got the boiler out of the machine and was able to use some shaking to get the piece that had fallen in out.

I looked through all the threads and I didn't see if it was possible to buy the brass retaining? ring (see picture) separately, is there a source for these?
Anyone know if it would be possible to get a replacement hose from Breville or possibly the new boiler (since I have it out) with the threaded fittings and the hoses?
All my sensors are leaking at the top too and I saw it is possible to get replacements, which is a good sign.


Nah. You don't need a new machine. Although I am a little bothered by the fact you've been using water that has corrosives in it. I'm talking about chlorides (note, NOT chlorine). La Marzocco says no more than 30ppm of chlorides. Synesso says no more than 0 (that's ZERO) ppm of chlorides. There may be (likely) some other corrosion hidden in the group complex or solenoid. But as with living with heart disease, if it keeps working OK, just roll with it.




My you seem to be plenty skilled. Ideal for affordable long term ownership... of any espresso machine. Now, before we head down the path of your options, let me proselytize a bit... In the future you (all of us) would be better served if you use water that doesn't cause corrosion.

Now... your options as I see them...

1) you can buy replacement t-tubes from ereplacementparts. If any one of them is not the exact length you need, you can cut in the middle, and splice in some of your own 4mm PTFE tubing using butt connectors like these. You can also buy higher quality splices from hose and fitting stores, but I've never had a problem with the cheapos.

2) If you rescued your brass end piece, you can wiggle and press it back on the end of your existing tube and re use it. It's best if you can find the ferrule that went in the tip, but other espresso machine makers that use this tube end format, don't use them. It's not super easy to rebuild the tips, but I've done it just for fun (I use corrosion-free water so I don't have problems with sticking). I have no doubt you could too.

3) Before you go down the path of new sensors... either put some silicone lube around the bottom where the metal meets the ceramic. Silicone lube doesn't melt out at these temps and reports are, it stops the migration of steam up the small gap between steel rod and ceramic shell.

OR

Braze off the tab at the top shim the steel rod so that it's snug up against the bottom of the ceramic shell.

I say these things specifically to you, because you seem like the sort who can is up to this.

Report back, would you?

-Peter
LMWDP #553

pape

#356: Post by pape »

Thanks for the insight Peter. I was able to fix the steam wand before I went all in on the seals. I probably got a little behind on fixing leaks too which I am sure lead to some of the corrosion, it has been a crazy year. I am not entirely sure about my water, I get it filtered from the refrigerator and then have a resin filter in the machine. I'll see about testing the water and doing some additional filtering.

I was not able to rescue the brass piece that slips over the hose, I damaged it getting it out. I did rescue the piece that pushes in out of the boiler.
I'll probably buy a hose from ereplacements and use it for parts as they are cheap enough.

I'll go ahead and try the lube and shimming the sensors, that is a great idea!

I'll report back in after she is all back together.

Thanks for the help!

Almost forgot I have EAX5 52W and a Vibiemme Bypass Valve, it works great.

pcrussell50 (original poster)

#357: Post by pcrussell50 (original poster) »

Great to hear mechanically.

Still... water... corrosion does not come from water leaks. It comes from corrosive water. If your water has more than about 30ppm of chlorides in it, (again, NOT chlorine), it will certainly be corrosive. Synesso says it should have zero chlorides in it. Your best bet is to contact your muni water supplier. Try their web site. If no luck there, contact someone and make sure they understand that you mean chlorides and not chlorine. Resin beads are for softening. They do not stop chlorides.

If your chloride content is too high, you will have to:

1) Look at using distilled water with a pinch (0.4 g or so) of potassium bicarbonate or sodium bicarbonate added to each gallon. There will be zero chlorides here

2) RO water as long as it has at least 30ppm of hardness. There will be zero or nearly zero chlorides here.

3) Buying the bottled water that La Marzocco recommends (as long as you are certain of their mineral formula). The chloride content will be zero or at least within spec for La Marzocco.

4) Taking your chances with more corrosion

Those are really your only options.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

Flair Espresso: handcrafted espresso. cafe-quality shots, anytime, anywhere
Sponsored by Flair Espresso
IMAWriter

#358: Post by IMAWriter »

pcrussell50 wrote:Great to hear mechanically.

Still... water... corrosion does not come from water leaks. It comes from corrosive water. If your water has more than about 30ppm of chlorides in it, (again, NOT chlorine), it will certainly be corrosive. Synesso says it should have zero chlorides in it. Your best bet is to contact your muni water supplier. Try their web site. If no luck there, contact someone and make sure they understand that you mean chlorides and not chlorine. Resin beads are for softening. They do not stop chlorides.

If your chloride content is too high, you will have to:

1) Look at using distilled water with a pinch (0.4 g or so) of potassium bicarbonate or sodium bicarbonate added to each gallon. There will be zero chlorides here



-Peter
Peter is entirely correct here. It's easy peasy to buy gallons of DISTILLED water, and using a requisite mount of Potassium Bicarnonate. So as not to derail this thread, PM me and I'll be happy to give you an easy formula. If you use this, you should never have to scale your BDB. Makes good drip coffee as well, though I do mix in a little tap for more mineral content. Cheers!

Note...it's cheap and cheerful, as my old Luton girlfriend used to say, whilst making us chip butties. :lol:
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

athoangphan

#359: Post by athoangphan »

So I bought a damaged BDB off of ebay and I am working on fixing the broken parts. I thought I would share some of my findings. One, you can easily access the pressure gauge by removing the two screws attaching the front panel to the body (one on the right next to the steam valve and one on the left next to the hot water valve.



Two, we could potentially plumb the machine to a bigger tank by removing the bottom of the machine will allow access to the pipe that routes water from existing tank to the pump. Running a longer pipe and a quick disconnect allows for the possible of plumbing the machine and retaining the "empty tank" sensor.

dlcx

#360: Post by dlcx »

Hi all - I have a BES920 that I've had for a number of years and it has recently started leaking when pulling a shot.

Looks like the group head collar plastic insert is cracked.

The collar has the 4 screws underneath it.

I believe this means it can use the 2 piece replacement collar insert if I'm not mistaken (vs the original 1 piece collar insert)

Question.. how best to replace this collar insert (if BES920 has the 4 screws on the collar)?

Would it be similar process to https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/Breville+D ... uide/40279

I tried undoing the screws but the collar seems firmly attached so assume it requires the whole group head to be removed from the top.
Wanted to double check before going down that path :)

Thanks for the advice!