Breville Dual Boiler Learning Curve? - Page 7

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Sgoldberg89
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#61: Post by Sgoldberg89 »

Thank you Peter! I am all for supporting Cafelat (sorry I used a "K" in my last post, I was on my phone and clearly dreaming about Kafatek). Like you mentioned, it's not a huge purchase and I don't mind picking one up just to say thanks!

Appreciate the thoughtful response!

IMAWriter
Supporter

#62: Post by IMAWriter »

Peter and friends,
I've had maybe 9-10 espresso machines of one kind or another. I'd ONLY heard of that term "spinout" in reference to my former Elektra MCAL lever...and I experienced it!!! Broken glass, all over the floor, hot coffee grounds everywhere. Of my other machines, I NEVER had an issue with the PF dislodging itself from the group. IMO, that is a defect of some sort. A bad group design as regards the screen/gasket relationship, or a poorly constructed portafilter...mainly the "ears" not matching the group's corresponding notches.

IMO, after a week or two for the group gasket to break in, ALL portafilters should look in at around 6PM...or there is an issue. The Bezzera Strega had an issue early on, corrected later. Is the BDB spinout a documented issue...meaning have their been widespread reports? One would think this would not be the case. It certainly...to my knowledge...has not been an issue with traditional Italian built machines. My QM Anita, purchased back in in 2008 or something never had a spinout issue.

I'd agree that perhaps the Cafelat gasket might be a cure. Also, folks tend to apply too much Dow 11 to gaskets and seals. A LIGHT coating is all that is required. NONE is needed on a group gasket. Better to change them every 6 months to a year. I also wonder if it is a build-up of coffee oils around the gasket due to improper..or not frequent enough blank disk water backflushing a the end of every day's usage? Coffee oils are slick, as you'd expect.

If I've learned one thing about this beautiful hobby/obsession, is that daily care for one's espresso machine, and timely cleaning of one's grinder can help keep things consistent, and tastier. Class over! :lol:
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

pcrussell50

#63: Post by pcrussell50 »

Roberto!

Spinout was a widespread complaint with the early BDB's back in Fall 2011. Strangely, it didn't happen to me... very often anyway. But I come from the school of surgeon technique versus BFH technique. So I'm a sucker for inserting the PF just as lightly as I think it's necessary. And... once a year or so I would get a spinout. I found if I locked in harder, or made sure the rim of the basket was dry and that there was no residual soap on the gasket after a detergent back flush, and that I kept the gasket squeaky clean, it was less of an issue.

Still...

And I can only speculate here... The portafilter IS solid stainless steel (lower thermal conductivity), not brass. And the group is not brass, it's aluminum (high thermal conductivity). I believe that for whatever reasons, possibly the different metals and their different coefficients of thermal expansion, the BDB is more prone to spinout than other machines. Another interesting thing that I don't know if is a contributor... Since the group is a soft metal and the portafitler is a hard metal, in order to mitigate wear, Breville has replaceable plastic* "ramps" to take the burden of the wear in the initial lock in. Once past the ramps, it's metal to metal.. or mostly so. Over time, these GRP ramps take the wear and are cheap and easy to replace when the time comes. Anyway seems like over the years, spin out has become less so. Portafilter spinout in the BDB community is not something you hear about so commonly any more. But I believe the tendency is still there even if in mitigated form. Beyond my wild speculation, I have nothing left to offer.

*This isn't your garden variety "cheap" plastic. It is an engineered plastic called GRP (glass reinforced plastic), essentially glass-filled nylon or something. It is used in aerospace and military for various things.
WHAT ARE THE PROPERTIES OF GRP?
GRP has a number of valuable properties, making it extremely useful in industries all over the world. These properties include:

Thermal insulation
Anti-slip safety
High strength-to-weight ratio
Does not melt, but burns similarly to wood (it can be produced fire retardant if required)
High energy absorption
Chemical resistance
Corrosion resistance
Can be used in enclosed electrical spaces
Good insulation to heat and sound
Easy to shape

WHAT IS GRP USED FOR?
GRP is used in a range of different applications. In many industries, there is a use for a product made partially or entirely from GRP. For example:

Water pipes or drain coverings
Anti-slip protection for retrofitting dry and wet flooring
Helicopter rotor blades and wind turbine blades
Handrailings
Electronic enclosures
Safety grating in industrial and public areas
Sporting equipment such as kayaks
Here:https://gripclad.co.uk/useful-information/what-is-grp/

-Peter
LMWDP #553

IMAWriter
Supporter

#64: Post by IMAWriter »

Peter, the metal coefficients...I forgot that. Stainless invading aluminum. Not over-tightening sounds like the thing. Keeping an ey on those plastic ramps another. Ingenious way to handle it by Breville.

It's no biggie, if one is aware. I suppose it might give a slight pause to pulling a shot and steaming at the same time? That said, if using the "Slayer mod", you'd steam after anyhow, I suppose. For me, perhaps the worst practitioner of so-called "latte art" ever. I steam milk in PRIVATE. :roll:
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

IMAWriter
Supporter

#65: Post by IMAWriter »

Amazingly, my BDB arrived today!! Was expected August 7th. Fear of failure setting in...kidding.
I'm armed with the TRUTH...and a manual I previously downloaded.
I will print the boiler filling paradigm, and use my newly "minted" Pavilis water. If I need to up the mineral content a bit for TASTE, I have Kirkland purified water...low in mineral content, with a TDS of 17. it's steam purified, something I like...RO generated as opposed to distilled.

Wish me luck.

Cheers,
IMA
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

pcrussell50

#66: Post by pcrussell50 » replying to IMAWriter »

Report back what you find. Don't be afraid to play with pre infusion and to tail off pressure lever-style by cracking open the water valve. If you can't get enough pressure reduction that way, your first "mod" is to open the top and move the pump cutoff switch off of the water knob. "Mod" in quotes, because it's not really a mod in my view... because it doesn't require any modding in the way of cutting drilling fabricating adding new parts, blah blah blah...

And guys, I've said before and I'll say again, we want to hear what Rob has to say about the quality of espresso he gets here. Good bad or ugly. He knows what he's tasting. "He has a tongue and he knows how to use it"

I forgot... what grinder will you be using, Rob?

-Peter
LMWDP #553

tennisman03110

#67: Post by tennisman03110 »

When you say "play with pre-infusion", is that just holding down the manual button for as long as needed? And this tail off, towards the later end of a shot? The pressure across my shots naturally tails off, from 10.5 bar to about 9 bar.

So far all my shots have used just the standard press of manual. Finally dialing it in, that's a plus.

I'll also add, my gasket seems more worked in after about 15 shots. The standard portafilter gets to 6-oclock pretty easily, but is tight and not wanting to pull further. Probably a good thing.

DaveB

#68: Post by DaveB »

pcrussell50 wrote:Don't be afraid to play with pre infusion and to tail off pressure lever-style by cracking open the water valve. If you can't get enough pressure reduction that way, your first "mod" is to open the top and move the pump cutoff switch off of the water knob. "Mod" in quotes, because it's not really a mod in my view... because it doesn't require any modding in the way of cutting drilling fabricating adding new parts, blah blah blah...
Rob, I'd be curious to know at what pressure the switch cuts off the pump on your machine. The best way to test (without wasting coffee!) is to use the backflush disc. Start the pump and after it ramps up, slowly open the water dispenser knob until the pump cuts off. On my first BDB it went all the way down to 3 bar. On the new one it only went to 5 bar (before I did the flow mod).
tennisman03110 wrote:When you say "play with pre-infusion", is that just holding down the manual button for as long as needed? And this tail off, towards the later end of a shot? The pressure across my shots naturally tails off, from 10.5 bar to about 9 bar.
He's referring to carefully opening the water dispenser knob to reduce the pressure during the shot. What this does is divert water out the spigot to the drain (similarly to the mighty La Marzocco GS/3 MP). Most BDBs will go down to 5 bar out of the box, and some even lower. Simply move the switch out of the way, as detailed in the mods and maintenance thread for full control all the way to 0 bar.
Von meinem iPhone gesendet

IMAWriter
Supporter

#69: Post by IMAWriter »

Apparently, it didn't like my Pavlis water, as the pu p ran, but no water emptied from the tank. I emptied the tank part ways, and added some water from my under sink filter. BTW, I couldn't find how to reset the hardness # in the manual. I cycled through the menu...I'll dig further.

The screen was on the filter connection. I just didn't connect the filter, as I didn't believe I need to. 4 years with the Strega, no real scaling.
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

IMAWriter
Supporter

#70: Post by IMAWriter »

Water did exit the group and and water wand...I figure even after 10 minutes, the steam boiler was still empty...just didn't want to burn up the pump..I'm going to let her cool back down to 90 f. Next fill, I'll take her to 60 ppm potassium bicarb. 4.3 ml per gallon has been my benchmark.
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com