Breville Dual Boiler, five+ years on - Page 85

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Drew
Supporter

#841: Post by Drew »

Hello,
Would it be appropriate to post question about Oracle milk frothing problem,(stopped producing micro foam)on this thread? Thanks guys!

pcrussell50

#842: Post by pcrussell50 » replying to Drew »

I don't think anyone would give you a beat down for it. BUT... of all the things the BDB has in common with the Oracle, the Oracle's auto frothing wand and system is not one of them.

From what little I know about auto frothers, you need to make sure that the part that sucks in air and injects it into the milk (which we have to do manually with the BDB), needs to be clean and unobstructed so it's blocked from doing it's job.

Beyond that, I have to punt to someone else. :|

-Peter
LMWDP #553

Pablo

#843: Post by Pablo »

Hi

Apologies if I have missed a post, but I cannot find any clues to this issue:

Dual Boiler will not reach temperature. It had suffered from an inability to run the descale cycle (endless 'valve' message) but some new o-rings and a steam valve seal flips and new o-rings fixed some leaks and the descale finally worked. However, ever since descale routine the temp sits at around 70C degrees and won't heat further. Plenty of steam.

Cheers.

DaveB

#844: Post by DaveB »

Pablo wrote:Dual Boiler will not reach temperature. It had suffered from an inability to run the descale cycle (endless 'valve' message) but some new o-rings and a steam valve seal flips and new o-rings fixed some leaks and the descale finally worked. However, ever since descale routine the temp sits at around 70C degrees and won't heat further. Plenty of steam.
Welcome to HB! I had this issue recently when I swapped in a new brass-necked pump and brass OPV. It's most likely an airlock in the system - as BDB guru Peter R will attest. With the machine off and cool, open and drain the steam boiler (one on right). With the drain screw still open, turn on machine and you should her the pump run; wait till you can see water coming out - and let in run for a couple of seconds while you close the screw (you can remove the drip tray screen to see better). Let it fill, and see if it comes to temp. If not, repeat the process with the brew boiler screw on left. Let us know how it goes.
Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Pablo

#845: Post by Pablo »

Welcome to HB! I had this issue recently when I swapped in a new brass-necked pump and brass OPV. It's most likely an airlock in the system - as BDB guru Peter R will attest. With the machine off and cool, open and drain the steam boiler (one on right). With the drain screw still open, turn on machine and you should her the pump run; wait till you can see water coming out - and let in run for a couple of seconds while you close the screw (you can remove the drip tray screen to see better). Let it fill, and see if it comes to temp. If not, repeat the process with the brew boiler screw on left. Let us know how it goes.
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately that didn't work. I also purged the pipe work using the descale process (as far as I can see, this Is the only way you can activate the pump to run water through the group below brewing temps. So I have a good flow through the group, the hot water tap and plentiful steam at the steam wand. Temperatures still lurk around 70 degrees. A mystery.

Cheers

pcrussell50

#846: Post by pcrussell50 »

Other than, DON'T DO THE DESCALE PROCES, EVER, Dave gave you the best advice we know. None of the high end machines have a descale function. They rely on the use of water with low or no Ca and Mg content. And no or very low chlorides. (Note: chlorides are NOT chlorine). You (all of us) should, do the same.

If you are handy: At this point I would begin to suspect a crook sensor in the boiler top. If one of them is not reporting that there is water in the boiler, the boiler's heater will not turn on. If you have access to a Watt/power meter you might be able to learn some things. For example, here in the USA with our weak 120V mains, the BDB pulls 1600W from full cold, 1000W for the steam boiler, 500W for the brew boiler, 100W for the heater in the group head. With 240V, your numbers will be different, of course.

If you are not handy it might be time to reach out to a repair shop. At least one bloke got a proper espresso machine repair shop to fix his machine without turning up their nose at him. It may look like a cheap kitchen appliance but it has all the parts and systems of a proper espresso machine. So a decent shop that's not afraid, ought to be able to do some good for you re diagnosis.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

Pablo

#847: Post by Pablo » replying to pcrussell50 »


Thanks Peter. Well there's definitely no airlock so I will have a look at the sensors. The heater is turning on - I am getting hottish water and it's audibly turning on, heating and turning off. By touch, the water is about 70 (I make a lot of coffees at work and know the temp by touch for milk) so it suggests the temp reading is accurate. I will open it up again and see what I can find. Cheers.

pcrussell50

#848: Post by pcrussell50 »

Pablo wrote: Thanks Peter. Well there's definitely no airlock so I will have a look at the sensors. The heater is turning on - I am getting hottish water and it's audibly turning on, heating and turning off. By touch, the water is about 70 (I make a lot of coffees at work and know the temp by touch for milk) so it suggests the temp reading is accurate. I will open it up again and see what I can find. Cheers.
Good sounds like you are pretty capable. A little system tutorial might help.

The brew water starts in the tank, goes to the pump (the obvious bits), but then the brew water tube dips into the steam boiler where it picks up heat from the hot steam boiler, before it goes on to the brew boiler and the heated brew head.

IF the steam boiler is heating and producing plenty of hot dry steam, that may be where you're getting your 70degC. Does that make sense?

The brew boiler should raise it considerably higher, and the PID controlled group heater should put the final bit of heat in, so that what you set in your display is what you would get in a Scace test.

-Peter
LMWDP #553

Pablo

#849: Post by Pablo » replying to pcrussell50 »

Hi Peter - that is incredibly helpful - so that points to the brew boiler as number 1 suspect and I will start there. Is there a fuse for the boiler or am I looking at replacement parts from the start?

I will check the wiring and current first, as the steam valve was leaking and that is right under the circuit board.

Really appreciated. Hope to get this thing brewing soon.

pcrussell50

#850: Post by pcrussell50 » replying to Pablo »

I can't assure that there is a thermal fuse for the brew boiler but I bet there is. There is for sure a thermal fuse on the steam boiler. In fact that is often the culprit when a descale cycle goes wrong. The thermal fuse melts, saving the element in the steam boiler.

Still, the water level sensors are a safety system too. If they fail to detect sufficient water level, they will not allow the heater to turn on in the first place. You might pull the sensors and see if they are all daggy from scale or corrosion. If they are, a simple wire brush cleanup might bring them back.

I wish I could speak with more authority here, but I never descale and I use water that has no Ca or Mg, and very low chlorides, so I don't have scale or corrosion issues. Thus, I have not had these problems myself. But these are steps I would take to troubleshoot.

-Peter
LMWDP #553