Breville Dual Boiler, five+ years on - Page 51

January 13th, 2020, 12:44 am

pcrussell50 wrote:...start your shot by pressing AND HOLDING the manual button. Keep holding for as long as you need pre infusion. When you are done, release to get full regular pump power.

Thanks Peter - this is how I started using the machine from the first day, thanks to the advice on this thread. I don't even know how to use it any other way. I haven't even tried setting the shot volumes - my wife even asked - "then what's the other 2 buttons for?"

. It's typically taking roughly 10-15 seconds of pre-infusion to get up to about 3-4 bar, and see the first drops, at which point I release the button for full pressure. I'm then getting a roughly 2x output after 30-35 seconds of pre-infusion, so am on the right track (I think!). It's fun dialing in, although I'm still getting some sour notes; have to play with shot temp. a bit next.

pcrussell50 wrote:If you have the newer style white obelisk thing, you don't need any of that because your tank should have a wire mesh screen underneath where the filter sits.

Perfect; mine is the newer obelisk, so I'll just leave it all out.

pcrussell50 wrote:You want a 58.4mm tamper (or 58.35). The Chinese are starting to do very good knockoffs of these for very good prices. You can try eBay and Amazon, but you might still have better selection with AliExpress.

Thank you!

January 13th, 2020, 1:20 am

nindustrial wrote:Thanks Peter - this is how I started using the machine from the first day, thanks to the advice on this thread. I don't even know how to use it any other way. I haven't even tried setting the shot volumes - my wife even asked - "then what's the other 2 buttons for?" . It's typically taking roughly 10-15 seconds of pre-infusion to get up to about 3-4 bar, and see the first drops, at which point I release the button for full pressure. I'm then getting a roughly 2x output after 30-35 seconds of pre-infusion, so am on the right track (I think!). It's fun dialing in, although I'm still getting some sour notes; have to play with shot temp. a bit next.

RE light roast acidity...

First, If you are using VST baskets, try going back the excellent Breville baskets or EPNW HQ baskets.

Don't be afraid to run your temp up to 205. A little unconventional, but myself and some of my mates with GS/3's and Slayers, (as well as "Slayed" BDBs) have had useful results at times from this. Also, you might try grinding even finer and pre infusing even longer. You have 90s before the solenoid times out. You could grind fine enough so that you pre infuse for 60s before releasing to full pump pressure. That will dull some more acidity. You can also tail off some pressure as the flow speeds up at the end by cracking open the water valve. Just don't go too far or you'll shut off the pump... until you open the top cover and move that microswitch out of the way. Then you can open the water valve to bleed off pressure all you want.

-Peter

January 13th, 2020, 1:40 am

Thanks Peter - everything is stock right now including the basket and tamper; don't want to accumulate too much this soon in the rabbit hole.

I will try your temperature tips (96 deg C for us colonials) as well as grinding finer with a longer pre-infusion. I worry about stressing the pump for long periods at 55 (aiming for longevity) but if that helps with taste, so be it. Water knob mod comes next but I do use the hot water dispenser (my setup is kinda far from the kitchen)...

January 13th, 2020, 1:49 am

nindustrial wrote:Thanks Peter - everything is stock right now including the basket and tamper; don't want to accumulate too much this soon in the rabbit hole.

I will try your temperature tips (96 deg C for us colonials) as well as grinding finer with a longer pre-infusion. I worry about stressing the pump at 55 (aiming for longevity) but if that helps with taste, so be it. Water knob mod comes next but I do use the hot water dispenser (my setup is kinda far from the kitchen)...

I won't lie to you here, mate... Even though Breville holds a patent on their low flow pump control (controlling vibe pumps at less than full power is notoriously tricky), it is my belief that it is harder on the pump to run at low pre infusion power than simply running it at full power. However, it is a standard Italian Ulka vibratory pump just like many other vibratory prosumer machines use, and replacements can be had for cheap on Amazon. I bought one for $27 USD delivered second day Prime. It's also pretty easy to replace. I can do it in about 15 minutes. 20 if I take my time. For that price, and relatively easy replacement, I consider pumps as consumables. Good espresso comes first.

Full disclosure, I converted to rotary pump, so I no longer face the issue of pump replacement and using the otherwise excellent Breville pre infusion.

-Peter

January 13th, 2020, 10:49 am

pcrussell50 wrote:So are iPhones and Macs... -Peter

Why did you assume my post to be a dig on the BDB? So I haven't been on this board very long and have only just started making espresso at home, but I don't think that warrants the kind of response you made. I only meant that it made sense the Chinese would know how to make accessories for a machine they are obviously already making, that's all. Really.

One more thing - while it's really cool to show a lot of interest for what you enjoy on this forum, making negative comparisons or references to other espresso machines doesn't seem very helpful. Thank you.

January 13th, 2020, 12:55 pm

downy_ball wrote:Why did you assume my post to be a dig on the BDB?

Why would you think that? There are many convincing arguments right here on HB why brass is a better material for espresso machines than stainless steel.

Maybe there was a misunderstanding... can you flesh out your statement about how Chinese manufacture of an Australian product somehow affects 58.4mm?

-Peter

January 16th, 2020, 1:13 pm

I sincerely hope it's not taken as smug or unfriendly, but lately in this and some other threads, outsiders and former BDB'ers have chimed in about the unreliability of the BDB because we have to replace some o-rings every so often (and even this might have gone away with the new o-ringless tube nut design as of mid-2018). If I sound like I'm beating a dead horse, so do the "disposable appliance" crowd.

Has anyone noticed the spate of issues floating around with GS/3's lately? If so, have you noticed the complexity of those problems? Speaking strictly for myself, I'd much rather change some o-rings than take on some of those issues. Some of them are classified as "serious" by experienced GS/3'ers.

This is not to pick on the GS/3. It's an amazing machine. My friends have them. I might too one day. It's just that the idea that the BDB is disposable appliance grade junk as it has commonly been labeled, is... quite simply... horse puckey. Pure, unadulterated, inarguable horse puckey.

/Rant off.

-Peter

#508: Post by **Jake_G** » January 17th, 2020, 10:14 am

Peter,

I take exception to your comment for two reasons:

You cannot end a rant "/Rant" without first starting one "Rant".
You imposed a double negative with the word "off" after the implied end of a rant using "/Rant". I simply cannot process /Rant off.

Does this imply that everything from here on is a rant?

That is all.

Cheers!

- Jake

January 18th, 2020, 11:01 pm

nindustrial wrote:Thanks to your enthusiasm on this thread, I recently got a BDB and am enjoying my first week using it. Picked up a refurb Sage from their authorized German repair outfit for just under $800 CAD. It has the updated group-head with the accessible screw-holes, but not the newer collar with the metal ramps. Haven't popped it open yet to check the boiler fittings version. Fantastic machine; just works(TM), and hopefully gives me many years of service. I feel I cheated the typical espresso hardware journey by starting with a machine with so much capability. Not ready to do the mods yet, but nice to know those options are in my future. I'm still learning to dial-in the shots; down the rabbit-hole I go.

I do have a water-filtration question for the gurus (you know who you are!); I am using the oft-discussed distilled water recipe of 100 mg/L KHCO3 and wondering if it's advisable to still use the supplied water filter in the water tank? If not, do you have anything mesh-like covering the water filter to keep out accidental particles? It feels naked to not put anything in there, and don't want to risk anything...

Bonus question - any suggestions for a cheap starter tamper that fits the OEM baskets well? I am living abroad at the moment without easy Amazon access, so might have to play the eBay lottery on this one.

TIA!

Please oh please wise deal finder, can you point me in the direction of this refurbished Breville product source? I too am in CanadaLand.

January 18th, 2020, 11:36 pm

I can't help you there, but in the USA they seem to be perpetually out of refurbs. At least factory refurbs. When people pay for off warranty repairs that are more involved that simple o-rings they often get brand new machines.

-Peter