JayBeck wrote:This is fantastic news for BDB owners! Now, just need the grouphead plastic part to come back in stock and it appears all major replacement items (solenoid, pump, ball valve) are available again.

Hah! Funny you should mention that. Not 15 minutes ago, I got notice from replacement parts that the two plastic group collars I ordered have shipped. Got a tracking number and everything.

I was looking for the plastic group collar thread to post the good news in, but I'm at work and busy and it didn't come up easily in a search.

-Peter

pcrussell50 wrote:Hah! Funny you should mention that. Not 15 minutes ago, I got notice from that the two plastic group collars I ordere have shipped. Got a tracking number and everything.

I was looking for the plastic group collar thread to post the good news in, but I'm at work and busy and it didn't come up easily in a search.

-Peter

I got you covered!
Breville Dual Boiler - Leaking Group Head Collar

-Jake

On alternate ball valves... good news bad news:

Good: I found a ball valve that is so close in dimensions to the Breville valve that it's virtually certain to fit with little to no modifications. Even the screw that holds it's handle on is the same metric thread as the screw for the BDB valve.

Bad: The BDB valve is more special than I thought.
1) it's a reverse logic valve, meaning when the handle is across the valve, it is open. Normally, a crossing handle means the valve is closed. Which means any normal valve you might use, up paddle will be off and down paddle will be on... opposite of what we have now. I could live with that, but it has implications for the micro switch which gets closed (activated) when you raise the steam paddle. I don't yet know what they are, though it wouldn't be hard to find our.
2) Second I no longer think the BDB valve is brass under plating. I think it might actually be stainless. Where the alternative valves I've discovered so far, are plated brass. This isn't the end of the world. Many espresso parts in many water paths are of reactive metals like brass and copper. But it means the Breville valves are cooler or "better" than I first thought. Hopefully they remain available.

I'm behind on some "honey do's" and my new -920 is working well, AND most importantly, it appears we can get the stock valves for now, so I will not rush to a trial install of the valve I have found, just yet. But it is on my list of things to try.

-Peter

pcrussell50 wrote:On alternate ball valves... good news bad news:

Good: I found a ball valve that is so close in dimensions to the Breville valve that it's virtually certain to fit with little to no modifications. Even the screw that holds it's handle on is the same metric thread as the screw for the BDB valve.

-Peter

I have been following this thread, along with one very similar over at coffeesnobs. I also suspect Peter, you are Dagoat over at coffeegeek too?

I am a very keen taker aparter, repairer, modifier & I once wrote a tutorial on the 'derancilio' mod which can be found via a quick google. I have since long sold the Dedica and have been a proud owner of the DB for approximately 18 months. I am very keen to contribute to the issue regarding the leaky steam ball valve.

During my term of ownership I have been very strict in using a softer, bottled water from Waitrose circa 100ppm. I use my machine to steam milk (+purge) with my coffee once a day. I only switch the machine on when I use it. Yet sadly, just yesterday, I discovered my wand starting to drip from the tip once the machine is up to temperature. I feel like the stock valve is not really the best, most hard wearing valve available, especially not at the cost!

I contacted coffeeclassics, apparently the official Sage/Breville repairer here in the UK. They told me they don't supply spares but they will repair. Hmmm pass.

I have looked into purchasing the official valve from EReplacementParts; the part alone is £32, plus shipping and tax I am looking at a hefty £70!!

With much thanks to Peter I was able to source a high quality stainless steel, high temperature, high pressure valve at a fraction of the cost; £10 posted. The body shape being hexagonal & slighter longer, looks similar to one Peter first attempted to try with. I understand Peter, that you were lucky enough to source an original replacement easy enough and you dropped the project, for now. I'd gladly like to take the baton here.

So I took the lid off my machine for the very first time last night and found everything to be dry, no signs of corrosion & generally in very good working order.

I have no clue what these substitute valves look like with their stock handles removed. I can only assume there is a 'cam' shape that locates into the handle, to be able to apply leverage. I have seen a few pictures of the DB innards, specifically the slot shaped cam on the stock valve, that locates in the plastic lever/handle.

Here is a great picture to support what I am trying to explain:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ziAYhHazRJaTaE8U6

To surmise I feel that there are four areas for concern replacing stock with a near equivalent:

Physical size - IIRC stock 39mm, most off the shelf substitutes 42mm. So a few mm longer/taller, shouldn't pose too much of a problem as I would have thought the tubing below the valve is flexible enough. Peter, would you say 3/4mm longer is manageable with out grinding the valve down? The substitutes width also generally seems to be larger, so the stock bracket will need to be modded or substituted, though seems easily enough achieved.

Stub/cam fitting - following Peter's contribution it seems an amount of grinding, filing will need to take place in order for it to fit into the stock plastic handle/lever. I would really like to see a more detailed picture of the substitute valve stub (without the handle) if possible, please.

Reverse logic - according to Peter the stock valve is opposite to the norm, being closed when the handle is inline. If this is the case, with no way to around, then the DB normal up/on lever will have to be up/off. From a quick investigation of my DB, it seems the microswitch can probably be lifted out the way so the handle never activates it. Not ideal, but no problem. Peter I understand someone over at coffeesnobs has substituted their valve, would you happen to know if they had an issue/how they over come this? If not I think i'll join up and ask some questions.....

Valve screw thread - I don't have any experience of this what so ever, but I am guessing the stock screw that passes through the stock plastic handle/lever to the valve, could maybe be replaced with a substitute screw with the correct thread? Peter, is it only the valve that is threaded, or does the plastic handle have thread too?

My next steps are probably to order one of the below:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-typ ... 2e0ecit47z

Being based in the UK, I feel here we especially need a solution that does not require such an expensive original part.

I have blabbed on enough for now, but I would be very interested to hear from anyone who has feedback or experience with this valve replacement.

fdzy wrote: With much thanks to Peter I was able to source a high quality stainless steel, high temperature, high pressure valve at a fraction of the cost; £10 posted. The body shape being hexagonal & slighter longer, looks similar to one Peter first attempted to try with. I understand Peter, that you were lucky enough to source an original replacement easy enough and you dropped the project, for now. I'd gladly like to take the baton here.

Oi! I have not dropped it. Well, ok it's a bit on the back burner for now.

I think I mentioned that I found a ball valve that is within a millimeter of the right length, and the screw thread for the handle is identical the the little screw in the handle of the BDB valve. It should bolt in directly... Only with reverse logic: up for off, down for on.

I realize that I did not present it. Here it is: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 0008-00038

It is common from many places including Amazon, where I got mine for about $12USD delivered.

The advantage you have in London Chirs, is that since the Breville valve uses British Parallel Pipe thread (BSPP), you ought to have many supply shops to choose from to shop for others. Here in the USA, we are stuck with mail order as most engineering supply has few or no BSPP options. Oh, it's thread size 1/4" for the rest of you Yanks watching.

-Peter

pcrussell50 wrote:Oi! I have not dropped it. Well, ok it's a bit on the back burner for now.
....
-Peter

Oops!! Didn't mean to offend You get what I mean though, you've put it off for now. Let it be said, I for one am VERY appreciative for what you have contributed so far. This information has been without a shadow of a doubt most useful & given me the confidence to give this substitute valve a go.

Also, not that I doubt your info Peter, but I did some further research from the photos of other's DB take aparts. It does seem as though handle across the valve on the stock part is indeed reverse logic.

Here's some photos that others may find interesting. Note the red arrow's placement on the grey knob's plastic piece that juts out. This is essentially the 'marker' for where the lever paddle is positioned.





The final picture illustrates the other side of the grey knob, with the plastic piece pointing up (meaning on/open); the corresponding cut out in the grey knob would marry up with the rectangular shaped valve piece, which is in the horizontal, across valve position. On most valves this position is off Darn it!


There is no reason why this valve needed to be a special reverse logic valve. The grey knob only needed the slotted shape turned 90 degrees and then off the shelf replacement valves would be a whole lot more simple. Companies that encourage hard fixes and a throw-away mentality really make me sick! Not cool Breville!

Maybe the substitute valve could have enough on the stub to re-shape reverse logic? Not hopeful of this though
Alternatively the last picture shows the parts on the grey knob that stick out (at the bottom). These parts are what are responsible for engaging the microswitch. IIRC with the microswitch engaged other functions on the machine will cease to work until the steam lever is registered as off. So the easiest solution would be just to lift the microswitch clear, as only a couple of screws hold it in place, so shouldn't be an issue.

BTW... Since discovering the leak, I have been playing around with the lever quite a bit, lots of up down movements, to full extension. This was mostly an attempt to understand how and where the valve/lever stops etc.

I did my usual coffee routine today, had the machine on for around +10minutes, guess what, no leaks.

From the outset I had a hunch (and even read on forums) about limescale build up being the cause of most problems on the machine. MAYBE I have just managed to loosen up some crud on the ball which was stopping it from closing fully. Time will tell.

I might go ahead with a descale, even though my machine hasn't nagged me yet. Then i'll just keep an eye on the leak situation. I might even order a substitute valve just to tinker with in the meantime.

No offense taken at all, mate. I was just looking for an excuse to use the word "Oi!" on a real Englishman (I grew up partly in Australia by the way, which is why I'm part of the handful that plays cricket in the USA. So I represent two of "the colonies")

You're right about Breville being not cool, in making DIY repairs as hard as possible. I have no special love for them in this. In my opinion, we are maintaining our own machines despite them, not because of them. Now, I don't fully blame Breville. They do a HUGE business here in the USA, where our uniquely permissive standards for bringing frivolous civil suits make it very risky for a deep pocketed company if someone here were to get hurt, or even pretend to get hurt, doing this kind of thing. In Australia, where there rules for bringing suit are very much more reasonable than here, and more in line with the rest of the world, some people have had luck getting repair parts directly from Breville that there would be no hope at all of getting from Breville over here. Ereplacementparts here is a heroic company, fighting pretty hard to be a parts middleman here in the USA but it is clearly a tough tough fight. So in short, I don't fully blame Breville for not being quite as forthcoming with DIY parts in the USA as they are in the home market... They have their own interests to protect.

fdzy wrote: Also, not that I doubt your info Peter, but I did some further research from the photos of other's DB take aparts. It does seem as though handle across the valve on the stock part is indeed reverse logic.

I don't know how we got mixed up on this, but I agree fully with this statement. It is what I have meant to be saying all along. I consider it a shame that Breville chose this path, but as with you, I am happy to work around it if need be. I have a few days off from work coming up. I may open up my brand new machine and throw in my nearly exact valve (save for the reverse logic issue) and see how it goes and report back.

Re limescale being a cause of valve failure, I can see how it might contribute. But I developed a (tolerably slow) leak after about 3-4 years, and I use scale-free water with the same kind of water treatment system the commercial shops use.

By the way, thanks very much for helping carry some of this water. Your pictures are fabulous.

-Peter

Hey mate! Firstly I must confess that these current pictures were not taken by myself. Full credit must go to Klund over at coffeegeek: https://www.coffeegeek.com/forums/espre ... nes/726101

I am merely researching and trying to make sense of it all !!

pcrussell50 wrote:I don't know how we got mixed up on this, but I agree fully with this statement. It is what I have meant to be saying all along.
...
-Peter

Btw Peter, no mix up. I understood from the moment you mentioned reverse logic; I think I was in denial that this could indeed be so! As why would the DB have such an anti pattern valve? So with that in mind I tried to confirm what you had found, via my own research alone, using just pictures. I suppose by the purpose of illustrating the fact and posting my findings here, it is now hard to deny. Sadly I fully concur with your findings, without doubt

As for the limescale, I think in my case it has been the source of problem. I have always been quite light handed with the paddle, so perhaps not using the full extension (fully open and closed/stop to stop). This wasn't clearing the limescale crud clear and it eventually built up enough to cause a leak. That is my theory. Further to that theory though, I have no doubt in my mind that these valves do eventually fail beyond remedy. If we go with the theory that my issue was limescale & that limescale is somewhat abrasive, over time that will attribute to wear.

There is no way around it, other than perhaps being more frequent with descaling?! However the regularity of that regimen also seems to be somewhat of a moot point, with the frequency of chemicals being flushed, blockages being detrimental to parts too. Argh!

Never the less the fact is, nothing lasts forever. There seems to be a happy medium for maintenance, descaling and the like. Parts will eventually fail, no matter. So it's down to the likes of us, the community, to band together and come up with solutions.

That said, please don't rush to spoil your brand new machine, enjoy your time off! I am sure in due course that a time of failure will come for all of us, so we should only have to endure the trial and error of replacing non-stock parts as and when necessary.

Peter thanks for exchanging dialogue here. I'll stay tuned to this thread for updates.

PS still intrigued how the member over at coffeesnobs (zip tied aftermarket valve), tackled the reverse logic. I posed a question to them, but no reply as yet.

pcrussell50 wrote:I think I mentioned that I found a ball valve that is within a millimeter of the right length, and the screw thread for the handle is identical the the little screw in the handle of the BDB valve. It should bolt in directly... Only with reverse logic: up for off, down for on.

I realize that I did not present it. Here it is: https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product. ... 0008-00038
-Peter

Forgot to say, thanks for confirming the 'close match' valve. I saw the Phobya valve myself too. The thing that slightly discourages me, is the lack of spec on the temperature and pressure handling. Plus this is also a nickel plated brass, which I was hoping to do better with.

I have already posted this link, but it seems to be high quality, stainless steel & can handle unto 180c/900psi:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/New-typ ... 2e0ecit47z

Downside is that it seems longer than stock (39mm), the non-stock above is 42mm, so +3mm. If the valve is equally positioned in the middle then that's 1.5mm extra length to consider at the bottom, which connects to flexible tubing anyway. I am going out on a whim to say it could probably fit without having to faff & trim down the stainless steel of the replacement valve.......

Also of course, the stock screw may not marry with the aftermarket valve, but finding a non-stock screw with the valve thread shouldn't be too tough. That is providing there is no thread inside the stock plastic knob!!??? Peter, I wonder if you could confirm whether the plastic knob is clamped or threaded by the central screw into the valve?