So, I have been going back and forth on which machine to purchase. I really wanted a dual boiler machine and had my sights set on the Lelit Elizabeth. I was also considering an HX machine and get it setup with a pressure valve. The Breville DB was also under consideration, but it was not on the top of my list.

Well, since Amazon put the BDB on sale today I went ahead and pulled the trigger.

symbology wrote:Well, since Amazon put the BDB on sale today I went ahead and pulled the trigger.

Nice.

Congrats. BDB is very nice machine. I own Lelit Elizabeth. Few months ago I borrowed Breville/Sage Dual Boiler for evaluation.

Thermal stability, programmable buttons, possibility of frothing every time are main advantages of both machines.

Steaming is a bit better with Elizabeth but it is not big difference. Advantage of Elizabeth is cool touch steam wand - it's much easier to clean.

In Breville/Sage programmable buttons can be set for time or volumetric control. You can also set power of pre-infusion.

In Lelit you can only set time for doses control. Pressure of pre-infusion can be modified by changing steam boiler temperature.
Wide programmability is main advantage of Breville/Sage.

Water dispensing is much better in Lelit.

Sage have some nice "secondary" features (wheels lock, possibility of filling with water from the front etc).

You can pair Lelit with WiFi plug. It's not possible with Breville/Sage. Wifi plug allows your machine to properly heat up.

Durability, possible of using WiFi plug and excellent water dispensing system are main advantages of Lelit.

Lelit looks more reliable. It's made in Italy. Breville/Sage is made in China.

What I will buy now with my current knowledge? I will buy Lelit. My wife will buy Sage. But some baristas will buy Mara

skansen wrote: Lelit looks more reliable. It's made in Italy. Breville/Sage is made in China.

That was a good synopsis of comparison. Just a couple of things to add. The key electro mechanical components of the Breville, the pump and the solenoid, are Italian. The pump on it is the same one that is found in most of the prosumer Italian machines that use vibration pumps. One other thing about the Breville: both the steam and brew boilers and the portafilters are solid stainless steel. Not plated brass. Not sure if Le Lit uses solid stainless here. They might. I just don't know.

One other thing that rarely gets covered: The Breville has a very sophisticated system for making sure that the temperature you set in the display, is the temperature you will get at the puck. It has not one but two PID controlled heaters, one for the brew boiler and one in the group head itself. This leads to a possible downside to the Breville. Because it's boiler is small and thermally agile, it is not good for pouring large amounts of tea water. You would have frustration filling a large tea pot with it.

-Peter

To the OP/Allen..

When you get your machine, report back the serial number in the thread below. Usually the $1000 sales are a clearance of older inventory. No matter. The latest updates are for easier DIY maintainability and they came out in early 2018. So if the first four of your serial number are 18xx you probably have those updates. And if not, it's still super easy to change o-rings. There is no difference in espresso performance or thermal stability. It will still be world class no matter what.

Now that you have pulled the trigger you should bookmark and read this page: Breville Dual Boiler Mods and Maintenance

And participate in the community using this page: Breville Dual Boiler, five+ years on

This one ^^^ is a huge catch-all where BDB owners discuss this and that and whatever.

-Peter

Thank you Miłosz and Peter for the detailed information on these machines, in this thread and others.

Miłosz,

Yeah, I researched both of these machines and I preferred the Lelit for the reason's you explained. The smaller footprint was important to me as well. However, with the BDB I can set it to wake up at any time and that is all that I need. I had the timer for the La Spaziale VIvaldi's that I owned. In the end it was two things that steered me to the B2B. The option to do the Slayer Mod and the sale price. That and the fact that the wife likes Breville stuff. I had owned a QM Andrea and while an HX with profiling was appealing to me, I know the wife would have hated the way it looked.

Peter,

I think I have read through all the significant B2B threads on here. More than once..... I hope it has the new style of fittings, but if not so be it.

symbology wrote:Well, since Amazon put the BDB on sale today I went ahead and pulled the trigger.

Congrats!! You will love it. I actually find steaming with BDB produce creamier microfoam milk. It is a bit slower but that give you plenty of time and control over it.

Unless you need the machine to churn out drink after drink... I make average 2 to 4 latte a day and I don't see any issue at all. Time to shop for a grinder?

Wow Allen. You have quite a resume in espresso machines and experience compared to that typical BDB buyer. That places you well to take advantage of some of it's more advanced capabilities instead of just using it like an ordinary espresso machine.

Funny, my wife likes Breville stuff too. Though when I bought the original BDB back in Fall 2011 she had never heard of Breville. Now we have a Breville toaster or two and a couple of panini presses and glass electric kettle and a stone bed pizza maker (that one is quite good). I grew up in Australia and we had some Breville stuff then too, so I'm actually ambivalent about them. Not a fan one way or the other. My fandom of the BDB is more cool and clinical. It is very good for my needs (flow control and temperature stability and easy to keep running). I was going to buy a GS/3 years ago. Still might. But this thing keeps going and going.

Andy re steaming... Back when Phil was on the forums, he gave a pretty good story about the details they sweated over the steam tip: one hole, two, three, four, hole diameters to the fraction of a millimeter, working the compromise between speed and quality, etc... A while back, I tried a La Spaz tip that was much faster than the stock tip. But sure enough, it was MUCH harder to make good micro foam.

-Peter

Yeah, this will be my 6th espresso machine and 3rd double boiler. I have owned a Mini Vivaldi II and then upgraded to a plumbed in VIvaldi II. I have been without an espresso machine since we moved into the new house. The wife will not allow me to make any holes in her kitchen. I will be putting up my Vivaldi II for sale here shortly.

pcrussell50 wrote:Andy re steaming... Back when Phil was on the forums, he gave a pretty good story about the details they sweated over the steam tip: one hole, two, three, four, hole diameters to the fraction of a millimeter, working the compromise between speed and quality, etc... A while back, I tried a La Spaz tip that was much faster than the stock tip. But sure enough, it was MUCH harder to make good micro foam.

I was making very decent latte art using BDB and I have yet to master the steaming using the gs3. I felt like I am starting from ground zero again. As soon as I switch back to BDB, my latte art is ~purdy~ again!