tekomino wrote:Michael, I have Strega now as well as Cremina. And I know some people were hoping that Strega will perhaps lower prices of used Cremina's. And while Strega is good, its not Cremina. Clarity of shots, flavor richness and even maybe temperature control, for me, its much better on Cremina. And Strega compared to Cremina is huge! So yes, Strega is good, but in my mind, not as good as Cremina.

After spending three sessions doing side by sides with high end coffees with both, along with the Elektra Semi, me on the Strega and Semi, and Sherman on the Cremina, the Strega consistently outscored the Cremina on body and mouthfeel, and consistently outscored the Semi on clarity. The Strega usually equaled the Cremina shots on clarity, but occasionally fell short; as it did on the body side with the Semi.

I did have a stretch of lousy shots on the Strega, when I was using misadjusted grinders; first on my own K10, then with a Super Jolly. The tendency is to set the grinder too fine, and it's not easy to figure out, since the dose change required when going between the Strega and conventional machines changes.


...split from Portaspresso, high price mypressi like device by moderator...

another_jim wrote:I did have a stretch of lousy shots on the Strega, when I was using misadjusted grinders; first on my own K10, then with a Super Jolly. The tendency is to set the grinder too fine, and it's not easy to figure out, since the dose change required when going between the Strega and conventional machines changes.

I think I've seen this myself with my La Peppina, recently cleaned and lubed so I'm in the process of re-learning how to use it after a long hiatus using just the Gaggia Factory. I started with the grinds set too fine (for the Gaggia) and got weak, coffee like shots with little to no crema. As I started coarsening up the grinds, the shots and crema improved as the flow rate increased, but I didn't fully finish dialing in the grind.

I was thinking that the lower pressure of the spring lever doesn't keep ramping up when the grind is too fine and the flow rate too slow (just dripping out) like a pump machine might when the pump is still running against the puck. I've been dialing it it using just the spring and no manual assist now since the Gaggia gives me plenty of opportunity for manual shots.

another_jim wrote:After spending three sessions doing side by sides with high end coffees with both, along with the Elektra semi, me on the Strega and Semi, and Sherman on the Cremina, the Strega consistently outscored the Cremina on body and mouthfeel, and consistently outscored the Semi on clarity.

Its off-topic, but in spirit of providing information, if there are problems with Cremina shots in terms of body and mouthfeel, then that is definitely problem with how shots were pulled. Unless you have temperature strip on Cremina group-head and good technique you will not be able to pull excellent shots with any consistency. Period.

Too bad you didn't have an old Sama Export, Dienes hand grinder, and a bag of "best before" Italian espresso beans for those sessions...

At the last Chicago event I brought my Cremina with a thermocouple and digital controller mounted to the group head. We weren't doing blind tasting of coffees, but we were at times pulling the same coffee on both machines. I wouldn't want to make a living on the taste difference between the two; to me it was that close (YMMV). Also, the Strega always has that ultra-slow extraction option that can't be replicated on the Cremina due to it's ever increasing temperature throughout the extraction.

In fact, that's one of the things I noticed most about the way another_jim works with the Strega. He never seems to have to worry about the temperature, just a short flush and go. With the Cremina, while it is extremely predictable you have to let it warm all (not most of) the way up, then put in the cold portafilter, then complete the pull within a very narrow window. Anything else (for example, trying to speed up the warm up process by pulling water through the group) gets me extraction temperatures all over the map.

I have a Gaggia Mini in pieces that will hopefully be up and running by the spring with full PID temperature control and the 2nd spring modification, mostly to see if I can replicate the Strega ultra slow extraction shots. I have no intention of parting with the Cremina, but I think the Strega is clearly a transformational home machine...

The Strega has a definite edge in temperature control when compared to the Cremina. Then again, both Pipeguy and I have '67s, so there may be something to the 2011 model.

My take on the Strega is that it provides a denser bodied shot, compared to the Cremina's lighter body. We may need to do a 3-way comparison; 1 coffee, 3 machines, 3 grinders with another_jim on his Strega, me and Pipeguy on our Creminas. It'd certainly be worth exploring, and it would give Pipeguy a chance to hone his chops on the Bumblebee.

To me, any further comparisons would be considered as points on a continuum of clarity vs. body, rather than winning/losing. The Semi produces a more integrated shot, as does my Maxi. For that reason, I have two separate machines that allow me to explore the edges of the continuum; perhaps if the Strega runs in full pump mode, it would produce a shot closer to the Semi and truly represent an all-in-one package.

I think you have to mention price as well. The Strega is <$2000 delivered. The Cremina is $3850 without shipping. Is the Cremina nearly $2000 "better" than the Strega? I can do things on the Strega that can't be done on the Cremina and yet it's still a "lever" machine.

Having both would be cool but if you can only pick one, I don't think it's a real hard decision.

The notion of a "best" machine will always be up for discussion. That's one of the nice things about these fora. For anyone considering either of these machines, I'd encourage you to do everything you can to find them in real life and pull a few shots on them. While both are lever machines, the actual usage characteristics are quite different.

Having had the chance to pull and taste shots on both, I'd buy (in order of preference) a used 67 (pre-2002) Cremina, a new Strega, and a new Cremina. In the testing sessions that another_jim mentions, the differences were most clearly observed during triangle testing. Tasted independently, each of the machines produced great shots.

Sherman wrote:The notion of a "best" machine will always be up for discussion.

exactly why I put that in quotes

if money is no object, that is a different story and like I said, both would be nice

Strega is ordered. This thread sealed it, and I am already impatiently awaiting my Strega! The "is the Cremina $2000 better" line really got me. Now I am off to re-read all the previous Strega owner threads. Nothing against the Cremina for sure, the Strega just made more sense due to price and my espresso experience level. I want a lever, commercial group, under 2k, and easy/stable temp control. This thread just seemed to finally make the best fit for me more obvious. And as I said earlier, if a nice vintage Cremina ever crosses my path, the Strega will have a partner. Thanks for all the informative discussions on the Strega, the research on what to buy these past couple months has been enlightening and fun.