I'm considering the Bellezza Bellona because of the external closed water tank. This is important to me since in my previous machine, the Bezzera Duo DE, I was constantly finding ants in the internal tank. Hopefully, the external tank is insulated enough that ants can't penetrate it. And if they do, I can see them immediately.

There's the also the ECM Puristika. It has the advantage of being able to change the OPV setting easily. Also, it's smaller since it's single-boiler (that is good for me - I don't make dairy drinks at all). However, the ECM Puristika has an E-61, which I don't want (that's another topic, let's not discuss it here). If you are aware of other machines with external tank, PID and pressure gauge (cheaper than those two), please let me know.

My question is actually about the programmable dosing buttons:



My Bezzera Duo DE had volumetric control, so I had set 44 ml (to get the 1:2 brew ratio from 22 grams of beans). I controlled the correctness of grind size using time (trying to reach the perfect 25-28 seconds). However, in the Bellezza Bellona, the programming is timed, not volumetric. You set seconds, not ml. I would like to know the answer to the following question:

How good is it to use the resulting beverage weight to control the correctness of grind size? Each time, I will get another brew ratio. For example, I set the time to 28 seconds. I'm afraid that if I grind too coarse I'll get a lungo, and if I grind too fine I'll get a ristretto.

Of course, I could avoid using these buttons at all, and stop the brewing manually (using an espresso scale), as normal espresso lovers do . But since the dosage buttons are there, it's interesting to get the answer to that question, especially from people who actually used timed dosing.

Thanks!

You hit it on the head with the problems of timed dosing. It's even a bit more complicated as the way the puck saturates and extracts can change the amount of water in a given time.

Though I'm not an E61 proponent outside of its design use in HX machines, I'd take the ECM over the Belleza on my perception of brand reputation alone.

Have you considered ways to externalize the reservoir on other machines? Some of the plumbable units seem to have switch-over valves that might work for you.

Jeff wrote:You hit it on the head with the problems of timed dosing. It's even a bit more complicated as the way the puck saturates and extracts can change the amount of water in a given time.

Though I'm not an E61 proponent outside of its design use in HX machines, I'd take the ECM over the Belleza on my perception of brand reputation alone.

Thanks!

Jeff wrote:Have you considered ways to externalize the reservoir on other machines?

I am not a technical guy, I need a ready solution.

I think I can do it this way. The cup should stand on the scale. If the grind was too fine, then yes, I will get a ristretto. But ristretto is a wonderful drink in itself, so nothing bad will happen. And if the grind was too coarse, then I just have to manually stop the brewing when the desired weight is reached. This shot won't be the best, but it will probably still be not too bad. Of course, in both the cases I will make the appropriate correction at the next shot.

Jeff wrote:Though I'm not an E61 proponent outside of its design use in HX machines, I'd take the ECM over the Belleza on my perception of brand reputation alone.

Your words made me think a lot...

Belezza Bellona

Pros:

• Warms up quickly (15 minutes).
• The saturated group is more reliable (no moving parts).

Cons:

• Little-known company, established in 2017. Reliability is unclear because there are no machines that have worked for many years. If the machine breaks down in 10 or 15 years and I need to buy parts, chances are this company will no longer exist.
• No real pre-infusion - just wetting (the pump runs for 2 seconds and then stops).
• According to owner reviews, the round buttons are poor quality, not enjoyable. Membrane PID buttons.
• The water from the OPV drains into the tray, which means it will need to be emptied more often. A LATER UPDATE: In fact, the tray of Bellezza Bellona is much bigger than ECM Puristika (seems like at least 50% more volume), it doesn't need to be emptied more often. The problem is different: in Bellezza Bellona, you have to fill the water reservoir more often.

ECM Puristika

Pros:

• One of the established, well-known and respected companies, whose machines have worked for very many years.
• Compact (single-boiler, but that's what I need).
• The water from the OPV drains back into the external tank, meaning you'll need to empty the tray less often.
• E61 group allows to install the profiling knob.
• Real pre-infusion (under low pressure). A LATER UPDATE: that is incorrect, it has only wetting if you don't install the flow control kit.

Cons:

• Slow to warm up (30-50 minutes).
• E61 group is less reliable (there are moving parts which require maintenance).

It's really not an easy choice to make!

Ursego wrote: I am not a technical guy, I need a ready solution.

There is ready solution - Flojet Water Pump. I'd take the Bezzera+Flojet over the Belleza...

Ursego wrote:Your words made me think a lot...

Belezza Bellona

Pros:

• Warms up quickly (15 minutes).
• The saturated group is more reliable (no moving parts).

Cons:

• Little-known company, established in 2017. Reliability is unclear because there are no machines that have worked for many years. If the machine breaks down in 10 or 15 years and I need to buy parts, chances are this company will no longer exist.
• No real pre-infusion - just wetting (the pump runs for 2 seconds and then stops).
• According to owner reviews, the round buttons are poor quality, not enjoyable. Membrane PID buttons.
• The water from the OPV drains into the tray, which means it will need to be emptied more often.

ECM Puristika

Pros:

• One of the established, well-known and respected companies, whose machines have worked for very many years.
• Compact (single-boiler, but that's what I need).
• The water from the OPV drains back into the external tank, meaning you'll need to empty the tray less often.
• E61 group allows to install the profiling knob.
• Real pre-infusion (under low pressure).

Cons:

• Slow to warm up (30-50 minutes).
• E61 group is less reliable (there are moving parts which require maintenance).

It's really not an easy choice to make!

I thought Bellezza was another sub brand of ECM/Profitec. Am I wrong?

Belleza is neither an ECM/Profitec mark nor it is a Bezzera mark. At least last time I looked at their website, there was a lot of what seemed to me to be marketing obfuscation going on.