I was wondering if this should have been posted in the repair/maintenance section but at the end I decided that this was the right place. It can be moved if necessary.

I am interested in knowing what is the general experience of other members with the quality of the machines they have or have had.

I purchased my first real espresso machine (coming from Nespresso) in 2019, it was a Gaggia Classic but I used it only for one month before upgrading to a Breville dual boiler BES920XL. I cannot say anything about that Gaggia because I did not have long enough.
However, few months later I purchased a second Gaggia Classic for the office. That machine was a disaster. It began leaking water, we replaced some parts, the problem went away for sometime then it came back, and finally the pump began acting weird. We replaced it one year and a half after purchasing it with a Breville Bambino. The Bambino, after 13 moths of use is still working fine. Maybe the Gaggia was just a lemon, I do not know.

The story with Breville is a little more complex.
I purchased my first Dual Boiler in March 2019, to be used at home.
That machine was replaced under warranty in June of the same year, after just three months, because of a leak from the steam wand. It was replaced with a brand new machine.
The second machine was replaced with a third brand new machine in march 2020, again because o leaks (I don't remember if it was the steam wand or the hot water dispenser or both).
The third machine was sent for service in December 2020. This time it was because of internal leaks. It was repaired and sent back to me.
Now, two years after the service I am ready to send it again to service and get it repaired (or replaced). Cost will be $400 since it is out of warranty. This time it is because the wand is heavily leaking (leaking water and steam/air), there are internal leaks, the pre-infusion is not working properly and the pump cannot reach 9 bars anymore. Shot count is 7050, I am not sure if they reset it after the service but it sounds quite right, we pull 6-8 shots/day, between espressos and cappuccinos.

I really like the Dual Boiler, I think that it is a fantastic machine with a lot of features that I like. But I am at the point that may even think about giving up on it. Three brand new machines in 4 years. All had minor or major problems. Maybe I should give it another shot, spend those $400, and see if it lasts more than 6-8 month. Or maybe I should spend those $400 in another brand. I do not not know, maybe a Rocket Appartamento or something in the same price range.

Anyhow, long story short: is this the norm for machine in this price range? Should I spend more, are those $3K-$4K machines instead any better?

EDIT: I know that having time and willingness, the Dual Boiler can typically be repaired at home, and there are plenty of information on the forum, however I am not going to do it.

Very limited sample of one Quick Mill Carola. I have had the machine 6 years and it has been trouble free until very recently when I replaced the pump and the air release valve, per the advice of the dealer's repair department. The pump had been hesitating a bit, and vibe pumps do not last forever. The repair was not hard or time consuming, although I did use home barista to get some advice! So based on a sample of one, E61s seem pretty reliable. I do think you need to be prepared for the very occasional home repair.

7000 shots is quite a lot. That would take me about 8-10 years to get through that much. I think you might have to accept that something dealing with variable water quality, lots of seals, high pressure, high temperature water and oils/grit might need maintenance. Professional machines need regular servicing. Plenty of people on here seem to get their LM machines serviced yearly as a matter of course.

The other option is to get a simpler machine like a lever machine and learn how to do basic maintenance yourself. It shouldn't require much work, they are very simple and probably suffer far fewer issues as well.

Topic at hand is exactly why I will only have a simple machine built to higher standards. A Silvia Pro is my daily driver and will be the rest of this lifetime. Internal/external build quality and component life is hard to top, especially for the price point. Is a very capable machine in every sense and continues to handle my daily use without a hitch and I expect it to indefinitely. I do plan to replace the water lines in time as they do get a bit discolored with heavy use/age and will install a heavy duty Ulka pump to push extractions beyond 75 seconds repeatedly.

I did have a Gaggia for yrs with no serious issues and still have no clue why the BDB is still recommended. You would think by now the Breville 'engineering team' could create something to hold up for more than a few yrs without involved fixes and not look like a polished turd appliance in the process. Honestly wouldn't have one if it was half price. To each their own though...

I've been using a Gaggia Classic daily since 2018 (the 'standard' model, purchased before they rolled out the 'pro' line). I have had no major issues with electronics, steam wand, boiler, or group head; though I have replaced the dispersion plate once and group gasket a few times. I did, however, come across a minor leak on the pump last year, which was easily fixed with quick disassemble and bit of PTFE tape. The problem is that I didn't know the pump was leaking until many months later, which I discovered when I went in to adjust the OPV. The leak had caused quite a bit of corrosion on the pump mounting plate & brackets and a few spots of rust along the interior body panels that needed mitigation. That said, for a machine running in the sub-$500 category I think I've got my money's worth from the the Gaggia Classic that I acquired. My advice to any other owners of these machines is to be a bit more rigorous than I was with routine interior machine inspection to look for any small problems before they become bigger ones.

Both Gaggia's were the Classic, older version, not the current one. Sorry I did not specify it, but I have updated my post to reflect it.
Also, the Dual Boiler is for home use, not office. At the office we use the Bambino, it take few seconds to reach temperature and be ready to pull a shot.

mctrials23 wrote: The other option is to get a simpler machine like a lever machine and learn how to do basic maintenance yourself. It shouldn't require much work, they are very simple and probably suffer far fewer issues as well.

I have thought about getting a lever machine several times. Does anybody know if Tidaka make kits for single shots for lever machines?

it seems like machine is going to be fully on 24/7 with no standby?
then u'd need a commercial cafe machine. even those needs regular maintenance and servicing like once a month. and paid each time. maintenance contract is a given.

bambino is kinda only heats up when running, and eventualy cools down when is not used (even if its on, it doesnt keep temp). it doesnt have a constant pressurized boiler putting pressure on the seals. this would probably last longer under 24/7 on.

2 years with bambino, and coming to a year with bdb. i turn off the machine when not used. doesnt take long to boil anyway.

iyayy wrote:it seems like machine is going to be fully on 24/7 with no standby?

Not really. We take advantage of the fact that the BES takes only few minutes to reach temperature so we turn it off when we know that we are not going to use it. Sometimes we leave it on after dinner because I like to take a late espresso, but also in that case the machine goes in stand by mode and it decreases the temperature automatically.

Thanks to everybody for the feedbacks. It looks like that even if the BES might be not top quality as far as components is concerned, something like what I have been experiencing is not unexpected with any brand/model, and at 7k shots having to service the machine is not unusual.

It's stuff like this that has me contentedly working with older used machines. I'm about to give away a well-functioning Krups Novo, and then modify another Krups Novo with flow control**. I'm also going to acquire a backup/mod duplicate of my ViaVenezia daily driver. The 'new' one is very clean, and apparently in excellent operating condition. So I can mod that one; my plans are (of course) flow control and OPV adjustment along with adding a temperature gauge and a pressure gauge. When I get that done, it can become my main machine while I add the gauges to my current ViaVenezia (which already has dimmer and OPV mods).

All of this, for a total outlay of just a couple hundred bucks.

A couple years ago as I was getting back into espresso, those Breville machines (among others) caught my eye. I even allotted $1000-$1500 to the purchase of a new machine. I'm sooooo glad I am instead on this path. The outlay is minimal, the enjoyment maximal... and if a machine dies, so what? But they aren't dying; I tried very hard to kill the Krups Novo that I'm giving away, but it has just held up and continues to be useful.

**Flow control makes even an old Krups Novo into a good machine. Add an unpressurized basket and fresh ground beans, and the espresso is quite enjoyable!

BodieZoffa wrote:Topic at hand is exactly why I will only have a simple machine built to higher standards. A Silvia Pro is my daily driver and will be the rest of this lifetime. Internal/external build quality and component life is hard to top, especially for the price point. Is a very capable machine in every sense and continues to handle my daily use without a hitch and I expect it to indefinitely. I do plan to replace the water lines in time as they do get a bit discolored with heavy use/age and will install a heavy duty Ulka pump to push extractions beyond 75 seconds repeatedly.

I did have a Gaggia for yrs with no serious issues and still have no clue why the BDB is still recommended. You would think by now the Breville 'engineering team' could create something to hold up for more than a few yrs without involved fixes and not look like a polished turd appliance in the process. Honestly wouldn't have one if it was half price. To each their own though...

Yinzer-in-JCNJ wrote:I've been using a Gaggia Classic daily since 2018 (the 'standard' model, purchased before they rolled out the 'pro' line). I have had no major issues with electronics, steam wand, boiler, or group head; though I have replaced the dispersion plate once and group gasket a few times. I did, however, come across a minor leak on the pump last year, which was easily fixed with quick disassemble and bit of PTFE tape. The problem is that I didn't know the pump was leaking until many months later, which I discovered when I went in to adjust the OPV. The leak had caused quite a bit of corrosion on the pump mounting plate & brackets and a few spots of rust along the interior body panels that needed mitigation. That said, for a machine running in the sub-$500 category I think I've got my money's worth from the the Gaggia Classic that I acquired. My advice to any other owners of these machines is to be a bit more rigorous than I was with routine interior machine inspection to look for any small problems before they become bigger ones.