JRising's post hits things on the head, at least from my perspective.

I've had my fill of fighting with Silvia-class machines over the years. If all you want is a generic espresso that is comparable to your local chain, that they can probably produce. However, they lack the repeatability needed to dial in anything but the most benign roasts. Note that "cheap" espresso can be harder to pull to an enjoyable point than would be a higher quality selection of beans roasted with more expertise.

If you want something with greater reliability and significantly better repeatability under $1,000 and aren't attracted to something like a Robot or Flair 58, I'd suggest a mid-range E61 HX and an Erics' thermometer. I would definitely avoid the bottom-end E61 machines as they often have compromises that impact their longevity, such as no SSR and/or electronic components subjected to excessive heat. Many will fail to properly route the vacuum breaker outlet somewhere safe, but that is a $20-ish fix for a new vacuum breaker and some silicone tubing. Expect to replace the pump (usually around $30), a full set of rebuild parts for the group (under $50), and probably some time descaling the boiler, HX, and group. Annual rebuild parts for the group are probably closer to $20, since you shouldn't need to replace the valves. I use Cafelat group gaskets for a variety of reasons, including seemingly infinite life in the home.

Jeff wrote:JRising's post hits things on the head, at least from my perspective.

I've had my fill of fighting with Silvia-class machines over the years. If all you want is a generic espresso that is comparable to your local chain, that they can probably produce. However, they lack the repeatability needed to dial in anything but the most benign roasts.

I've got to quibble with this. Repeatability comes from learning your machine, not from spending a fortune on a machine. I'm into a bag of Guatemala light roast, from a good local roaster. And I've been able to get consistently good espresso for the past many days. Thing is that based on results from other coffees, I was able to predict what would work.... and my prediction was on-target. And that's on an old ViaVenezia, not even on a Silvia. Granted I modded it with dimmer for flow control, but that mod is doable on so many machines - and takes them to good places.

And I've had espresso at some joints over the past few months. And right now, mine is better than all but one. I have a couple friends who come over weekly, and they are now telling me they are spoiled. That they can't just go out and get it anymore because of what they're getting from me.

luca wrote:...one of the tragedies of modern consumerism is that buying a new 920 on sale every few years for 1/4 of the cost of an e61 HX, and having a spare around to avoid downtime, might be an economically rational thing to do, despite it being wasteful.

And I've taken this concept and run with it, as I have a second ViaVenezia on the way. At 1/16 the cost of the Breville.

Your experience with BDB is typical for those of us who use our machines for multiple shots, daily. They are a great company and offer very friendly warranty and out-of-warranty service options if you are OK with some occasional downtime and shipping the unit. I don't know if other, more expensive brands can go longer between services, and I would bet the repairs are more expensive. But, part of the value proposition with certain brands (and more expensive machines) may be that you can get local, on-site service when needed, and minimize downtime and personal opportunity costs.

7k shots in two years, nice. Honestly that's like getting 300k miles out of a Ford Escort! Going to have to replace some parts occasionally on high mileage machines.

Moka 1 Cup wrote:With the Appartamento I am also having problems with the temperature. If I pull an espresso 30 minutes after turning it on, it's OK. But after that the water temperature gets really too high.

Despite many marketing claims, HX machines virtually all* need a flushing routine to manage the brew temperature.

See, for example, HX Love - Managing the Brew Temperature

* The Mara X being the only generally available exception I know of.

The temperature in the boiler is related to the pressure in the boiler. Without getting into a lot of thermodynamics which either you understand already or probably don't care about, the eventual idle temperature will roughly track the boiler temperature. Reducing the system temperature will reduce the amount you need to flush. (A scant cup of water doesn't sound like a lot to me for a machine that has been at hot idle, based on memories of my E61 HX.) Reducing the boiler temperature will reduce the "power" of the steam. It sounds like that wouldn't be a bad thing, at least right now. There might be a few degrees that you can gain that way. A saturated steam table gives roughly:

1.2 bar -- 123°C
1.4 bar -- 126°C
1.6 bar -- 129°C

Another "trick" is to flush into a mug and dump the mug in the sink. It at least saves dealing with the messy drip tray as much.

iploya wrote:They are a great company and offer very friendly warranty and out-of-warranty service options if you are OK with some occasional downtime and shipping the unit.

Perhaps you could limit your statements to the USA, if that is your experience.

FWIW, I bought a second hand 920 a few years ago and it sprung a steam leak. I probably could have fixed it myself, but I was under time pressure, so outsourced it. I called up Breville Australia and they referred me to an external service centre. I assumed that it would have been a vacuum breaker or something like that, which would have been an easily replaceable and cheap part on the e61 HX I had before the Breville. I was told that the whole boiler had to be replaced, at great cost to me. I don't know what happened, but I am very suspicious that the service centre wasn't very competent and just replaced a massive component and everything attached to it, probably in one big chunk that they buy pre-assembled. In any event, it started leaking again a few months later, so I opted not to throw good money after bad.

All of this is n=1. I have no idea how durable these machines might or might not be.

To be fair to breville, whilst it is true that things like a silvia or an e61 hx are probably so simple to repair that you could seemingly keep them going forever, the 920 does seem to make quite good coffee and it has a number of good ease of use features. It's often available cheaply, and one of the tragedies of modern consumerism is that buying a new 920 on sale every few years for 1/4 of the cost of an e61 HX, and having a spare around to avoid downtime, might be an economically rational thing to do, despite it being wasteful.

In summary, pick the box of compromises that you are going to be happiest to live with, and if you want to bury your head in the sand and assert that it has no shortcomings, I'm a curmudgeonly and ancient enough coffee forum dweller that I think I will probably egg you on a bit, Willy Wonka style.

luca wrote:Perhaps you could limit your statements to the USA, if that is your experience.
...I am very suspicious that the service centre wasn't very competent and just replaced a massive component and everything attached to it, probably in one big chunk that they buy pre-assembled.

Oh man! That's a good heads-up kind of anecdote to be aware of if I ever call for service.

My experience with Breville was initially to warranty them, and eventually rolled up my sleeves to try and DIY because it seemed wasteful and inefficient to be so reliant on shipping machines back and forth. But the DIY approach only took me so far. I got stuck at the end of last year, called around for service and nobody local would touch it because it was more of a home appliance brand I guess. That was the tipping point for me to order/invest in a new LM unit, which the service center I spoke with said they can definitely work on if needed in the future.