I wonder if this move is to compete with the Rocket HX machines which offer the PID.

I completely agree with Alan. Very glad I got my Pro 500 when I did. I would also add that anyone is well-served by adding Eric's thermometer, even if you have a PID.

Doesn't this, then, bring the Pro 500 up to the Expobar Brewtus IV price point?

I was looking at the Profitec 500 over the Brewtus for the $300 price difference. The Brewtus seems like a crossover vehicle: strengths of HX with capabilities of dual boiler with PID.

At nearly the same price point, the cost:benefit ratio of the PID P-500 decreases.

If closeout 2017 Profitec 500s drop by $100, I'll pick one of those up.

Id be interested if they drop the price, or just sell out of what they have and then list the new one for sale.

I have a non-PID Pro 500, and it's a great machine. I will say that the clicking of the pressurestat annoys me more than I though it would. It's a Sirai, which I believe is louder because of it's bigger contacts. IMO, PID for HX doesn't make much sense, the only benefit I see is getting rid of the clicking on/off of the pressurestat. otherwise precise temp control is all about learning your personal machine's flush routine in different situations, preferably with Erics thermometer and even some Scace testing.
to some degree, I agree with DB PID on a E61 unappealing to me, because there is still some degree of temp variability depending on how hot the group head is, and since it's an exposed head, temp can vary depending on idle time and ambient temp.
From the Pro 500, the only upgrade I'd consider is an integrated group like the linea mini, a saturated group like a GS3, or maybe a spring lever, but then I'd give up precise temp control again. the DB PID E61 doesn't hold any appeal to me.
What I'd love is if Profitec redesigned the Pro 300 with better looks, higher quality construction (better valves, bigger steam boiler, nicer on/off brew switch, maybe even an all stainless grouphead like the linea mini) and priced it somewhere in between the Pro 500 and 700. That would be an awesome machine, quick heat up, stable temps, all stainless, and without the rediculous pricetag of the La Marzzoccos.

I'm not sure your comment about DB E61s having temperature variability is accurate, at least not as relates to the Profitec Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika. Based upon testing done by this website and retailers like WLL, these machines are incredibly temperature stable. If you are pulling shots 10-15 minutes after you turn the machine on, then yes -- you may have the temp off a few degrees at the group. But if you wait 30 minutes or so before pulling your first shots (just put it on a timer) then you can pull as many shots as you want at your set temperature so long as there is 60 seconds between shots. Which, by the way, is the same 'downtime' needed on the LMLM.

So the LMLM costs $1700-2000 more than the top tier E61 DBs. For that price increase you are getting slightly more steam power, 15 minute faster warm up, and a more modern looking design. What's more, if you get an E61 DB Rotary machine with a mechanical valve instead of a solenoid valve, then you get true line pressure pre-infusion -- something the LMLM can only do with extensive modifications.

At the end of the day, you are paying nearly $1500 for the LM name, and that's being generous in putting $200-500 value on a few seconds faster steaming and 10-15 minute faster warm up.

I completely agree with Jay. I've measured the temperature of my Synchronika and it's pretty stable.

JayBeck wrote:I'm not sure your comment about DB E61s having temperature variability is accurate, at least not as relates to the Profitec Pro 700 and ECM Synchronika. Based upon testing done by this website and retailers like WLL, these machines are incredibly temperature stable. If you are pulling shots 10-15 minutes after you turn the machine on, then yes -- you may have the temp off a few degrees at the group. But if you wait 30 minutes or so before pulling your first shots (just put it on a timer) then you can pull as many shots as you want at your set temperature so long as there is 60 seconds between shots. Which, by the way, is the same 'downtime' needed on the LMLM.

So the LMLM costs $1700-2000 more than the top tier E61 DBs. For that price increase you are getting slightly more steam power, 15 minute faster warm up, and a more modern looking design. What's more, if you get an E61 DB Rotary machine with a mechanical valve instead of a solenoid valve, then you get true line pressure pre-infusion -- something the LMLM can only do with extensive modifications.

At the end of the day, you are paying nearly $1500 for the LM name, and that's being generous in putting $200-500 value on a few seconds faster steaming and 10-15 minute faster warm up.

So in a nutshell. The Pro 500 with the pressurestat is as good as gold?

I don't think there is a machine below $2k that is better for sure. It's a really amazing machine.

Any complaints with your Sette? I think I'm going to get the Pro 500 and the Sette to start, then consider a Monolith down the line. I'm not feeling the love here much with all the "mid-range" commercial grinders. My Rancilio and Vario can be the wife's machine as she likes much more voluminous espresso shots for Americano's