1 Group Espresso Machine's Thermal Stability Test

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indend007
Posts: 232
Joined: 13 years ago

#1: Post by indend007 »

This is for maxmar's PM request, and update of my past thread below.

The effect of pre-infusion flow-rate on brew temperature profile

I add up some data of LM GS/3 with modified procedure by shadowfax.

Modified Procedure for Measurement of Brewing Water Temperature






Caution : At this point, I know that a slayer have updated their firmware, so it coudn't be a reference.

Shot 1	Shot 2	Shot 3	Shot 4	Shot 5	Shot 6	Shot 7	Shot 8	Shot 9	Shot 10
Intervals	0:10:00	0:5:00	0:2:00	0:2:00	0:1:00	0:1:00	0:1:00	0:0:30	0:0:30	0:0:30
Seconds	Temp	Temp	Temp	Temp	Temp	Temp	Temp	Temp	Temp	Temp
	1	70.8	81.7	78.9	81.4	81.6	83.0		81.6	82.1	82.4
	2	80.2	87.4	86.1	89.7	86.6	89.8		87.6	88.6	88.2
	3	89.1	91.3	90.5	91.9	91.3	92.3		90.8	92.0	92.0
	4	91.8	92.5	92.4	92.5	92.7	92.3		92.4	92.9	93.0
	5	92.6	92.7	92.7	92.8	92.9	92.8		92.9	93.0	93.3
	6	93.3	92.8	92.8	92.8	92.9	92.9		93.1	93.0	93.2
	7	93.1	92.8	92.8	92.9	93.0	93.0		93.1	93.1	93.2
	8	93.1	92.8	92.8	92.9	93.0	93.0		93.1	93.1	93.1
	9	93.1	92.8	92.8	92.9	93.0	93.0		93.2	93.2	93.2
	10	93.1	92.8	92.8	93.0	93.1	92.9		93.2	93.2	93.2
	11	93.2	92.8	92.9	93.1	93.1	93.0		93.2	93.2	93.2
	12	93.2	92.9	93.0	93.1	93.2	93.0		93.3	93.2	93.2
	13	93.1	92.9	93.0	93.1	93.2	93.0		93.3	93.2	93.2
	14	93.1	93.0	93.0	93.2	93.2	93.0		93.3	93.3	93.3
	15	93.1	93.0	93.0	93.2	93.2	93.0		93.4	93.3	93.3
	16	93.1	93.0	93.1	93.3	93.2	93.0		93.5	93.3	93.3
	17	93.1	93.1	93.1	93.3	93.3	93.1		93.5	93.3	93.3
	18	93.2	93.1	93.2	93.3	93.3	93.1		93.5	93.4	93.4
	19	93.2	93.1	93.2	93.3	93.3	93.2		93.5	93.4	93.3
	20	93.2	93.2	93.2	93.3	93.3	93.2		93.5	93.4	93.4
	21	93.2	93.2	93.2	93.3	93.3	93.2		93.5	93.4	93.4
	22	93.2	93.2	93.2	93.4	93.4	93.2		93.5	93.4	93.4
	23	93.2	93.2	93.3	93.4	93.4	93.2		93.5	93.5	93.4
	24	93.3	93.3	93.3	93.5	93.4	93.3		93.5	93.5	93.4
	25	93.3	93.3	93.3	93.5	93.5	93.3		93.6	93.5	93.4
Sorry for lost 7th shot data.

maxmar
Posts: 29
Joined: 8 years ago

#2: Post by maxmar »

Thank you very much Devin for sharing the GS/3 data as well and make the comparison between these nice machines so easily available!

Even if it's a bit crazy, I wanted to see if a good E61 prosumer HX machine (without PID) can thermally keep up with commercial quality machines made for domestic, event, or (small) coffee shop usage. So I took my Rocket Evoluzione V2 out for a drive...

Of course, everyone who wants to brew tasty espresso would apply HX machine-specific flush routines but mostly not the one from the protocol ;). So following this procedure is rather a virtual scenario to come up with something comparable.

Here we go:
  • Scace device + Amprobe TMD-56 were calibrated to a boiling point of 99.89 °C (= 211.8 °F).
  • Ambient temperature was 23.6 °C (= 74.4 °F). Rather high for me due to a very sunny day.
  • The Sirai pressurestat is set to 1.1 bar.


Here's the backing data:
	Shot 1		Shot 2		Shot 3		Shot 4		Shot 5		Shot 6		Shot 7		Shot 8		Shot 9		Shot 10	
	Interval	0:10:00	Interval	0:5:00	Interval	0:2:00	Interval	0:2:00	Interval	0:1:00	Interval	0:1:00	Interval	0:1:00	Interval	0:0:30	Interval	0:0:30	Interval	0:0:30
Shot Time	Time	Temp	Time	Temp	Time	Temp	Time	Temp	Time	Temp	Time	Temp	Time	Temp	Time	Temp	Time	Temp	Time	Temp
0	00:32	77,7	06:21	80,0	09:11	70,9	12:01	60,0	13:51	80,4	15:40	63,2	17:31	64,6	18:50	84,0	20:11	82,9	21:30	71,4
1	00:33	91,2	06:22	93,7	09:12	70,9	12:02	60,0	13:52	82,6	15:41	63,2	17:32	64,6	18:51	83,9	20:12	82,9	21:31	71,4
2	00:34	96,5	06:23	93,7	09:13	75,3	12:03	70,8	13:53	82,6	15:42	71,0	17:33	63,7	18:52	82,6	20:13	81,8	21:32	69,4
3	00:35	97,4	06:24	95,4	09:14	82,7	12:04	86,2	13:54	84,2	15:43	71,0	17:34	74,7	18:53	82,6	20:14	81,7	21:33	67,6
4	00:36	98,0	06:25	96,2	09:15	94,9	12:05	86,2	13:55	87,4	15:44	83,0	17:35	74,7	18:54	81,4	20:15	83,8	21:34	70,0
5	00:37	98,6	06:26	96,6	09:16	94,9	12:06	93,0	13:56	87,4	15:45	83,0	17:36	90,1	18:55	81,4	20:16	83,8	21:35	74,9
6	00:38	98,7	06:27	96,8	09:17	95,8	12:07	94,2	13:57	91,2	15:46	91,1	17:37	90,1	18:56	83,2	20:17	86,4	21:36	80,7
7	00:39	98,7	06:28	96,8	09:18	95,8	12:08	95,0	13:58	92,2	15:47	92,9	17:38	92,3	18:57	85,7	20:18	88,4	21:37	87,8
8	00:40	98,8	06:29	96,9	09:19	96,2	12:09	95,6	13:59	92,2	15:48	92,9	17:39	92,3	18:58	88,1	20:19	89,7	21:38	89,0
9	00:41	98,8	06:30	97,0	09:20	96,2	12:10	95,6	14:00	93,0	15:49	93,1	17:40	92,8	18:59	89,8	20:20	90,3	21:39	89,6
10	00:42	98,8	06:31	97,0	09:21	96,2	12:11	95,6	14:01	93,6	15:50	93,1	17:41	92,9	19:00	90,7	20:21	90,4	21:40	90,0
11	00:43	98,9	06:32	97,1	09:22	96,2	12:12	95,7	14:02	93,7	15:51	93,2	17:42	93,0	19:01	91,3	20:22	90,5	21:41	90,1
12	00:44	98,9	06:33	97,1	09:23	96,1	12:13	95,8	14:03	93,7	15:52	93,1	17:43	93,0	19:02	91,3	20:23	90,6	21:42	90,2
13	00:45	98,8	06:34	97,1	09:24	96,1	12:14	95,8	14:04	93,7	15:53	93,3	17:44	93,1	19:03	91,3	20:24	90,6	21:43	90,2
14	00:46	98,8	06:35	97,0	09:25	96,1	12:15	95,8	14:05	93,7	15:54	93,3	17:45	93,0	19:04	91,4	20:25	90,7	21:44	90,2
15	00:47	98,7	06:36	97,0	09:26	96,0	12:16	95,8	14:06	93,8	15:55	93,3	17:46	93,0	19:05	91,4	20:26	90,7	21:45	90,3
16	00:48	98,7	06:37	97,0	09:27	96,0	12:17	95,7	14:07	93,8	15:56	93,3	17:47	93,0	19:06	91,4	20:27	90,7	21:46	90,2
17	00:49	98,6	06:38	96,9	09:28	95,9	12:18	95,5	14:08	93,8	15:57	93,2	17:48	92,9	19:07	91,4	20:28	90,6	21:47	90,2
18	00:50	98,6	06:39	96,9	09:29	95,9	12:19	95,5	14:09	93,8	15:58	93,2	17:49	92,9	19:08	91,4	20:29	90,6	21:48	90,2
19	00:51	98,5	06:40	96,8	09:30	95,8	12:20	95,5	14:10	93,8	15:59	93,2	17:50	92,8	19:09	91,4	20:30	90,6	21:49	90,1
20	00:52	98,5	06:41	96,8	09:31	95,8	12:21	95,4	14:11	93,7	16:00	93,1	17:51	92,7	19:10	91,4	20:31	90,6	21:50	90,1
21	00:53	98,5	06:42	96,8	09:32	95,8	12:22	95,4	14:12	93,7	16:01	93,1	17:52	92,7	19:11	91,4	20:32	90,6	21:51	90,1
22	00:54	98,5	06:43	96,8	09:33	95,7	12:23	95,4	14:13	93,7	16:02	93,0	17:53	92,7	19:12	91,3	20:33	90,6	21:52	90,1
23	00:55	98,3	06:44	96,8	09:34	95,6	12:24	95,2	14:14	93,7	16:03	93,0	17:54	92,7	19:13	91,3	20:34	90,6	21:53	90,1
24	00:56	98,2	06:45	96,8	09:35	95,6	12:25	95,2	14:15	93,7	16:04	92,9	17:55	92,5	19:14	91,3	20:35	90,6	21:54	90,1
25	00:57	98,2	06:46	96,6	09:36	95,6	12:26	95,1	14:16	93,6	16:05	92,9	17:56	92,5	19:15	91,3	20:36	90,5	21:55	90,0

maxmar
Posts: 29
Joined: 8 years ago

#3: Post by maxmar »

For your convenience, here are the details of the graphs from Nicholas (shadowfax) and Devin (indend007):

jonr
Posts: 610
Joined: 11 years ago

#4: Post by jonr »

I find it interesting that people who have tried temperature profiling typically find that a rising profile tastes worse. Yet all of the machines in post #1 show a slightly rising profile.

Would also be interesting to see how repeatable they are under different environmental conditions - eg, change the room temp, turn on an overhead fan, etc and then compare to the original numbers.

Not2Bitter
Posts: 99
Joined: 10 years ago

#5: Post by Not2Bitter »

I would be interested to see more machines one here.
I would be curious to see a Linea mini graphed and some of the PID e61 machines.

maxmar
Posts: 29
Joined: 8 years ago

#6: Post by maxmar »

Hello Jon,
jonr wrote:I find it interesting that people who have tried temperature profiling typically find that a rising profile tastes worse.
I haven't heard about that, yet. Even if it's a bit off-topic for that thread, can you please reference/share some experience reports? To my current understanding it depends on the coffee which temperature profile brings out the coffee's flavors best. An interesting read might also be Andrew Easthope's post Brew Temperature and its Effects on Espresso.

Best,
Max

maxmar
Posts: 29
Joined: 8 years ago

#7: Post by maxmar »

Not2Bitter wrote:I would be curious to see a Linea mini graphed...
Dan provided not a graph but some data and videos here.

Not2Bitter
Posts: 99
Joined: 10 years ago

#8: Post by Not2Bitter replying to maxmar »

Oh I saw the videos. I guess I just want to see all the graphs lined up for a more readable comparison.

jonr
Posts: 610
Joined: 11 years ago

#9: Post by jonr »

An interesting read might also be Andrew Easthope's post Brew Temperature and its Effects on Espresso.
I find it interesting in that even in 2015, it is referring to brew temperature and flow as a single value throughout brew. But that's not what happens, even with machines that maintain a nearly constant temperature and pressure above the coffee.

maxmar
Posts: 29
Joined: 8 years ago

#10: Post by maxmar »

Not2Bitter wrote:I would be curious to see a Linea mini graphed and some of the PID e61 machines.
Me too, especially for a Synesso, a Linea Mini, a Rocket R60 V, and other good PID DB machines. Can some owners please share the results ;)?

BTW, here's the Excel sheet from Nicholas for that, which contains both the protocol and the graph generation - you only need to copy and paste the raw logged data and change the head lines!

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