Valve Bag Storage Life - Page 2

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
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timo888

#11: Post by timo888 »

Freezing in an airtight container yields better results, IMO, than valve-bags at room temp.

There are no good roasters near me, so I buy by mail, usually two pounds at a time. I couldn't finish one pound of coffee before it went stale, let alone two, so freezing is necessary. I move the beans from the bag to an airtight container and put them in the freezer compartment of my refrigerator. There a general consensus that a deep freeze is better than your refrigerator's freezer compartment if you're going to store the beans for more than a couple of months.

Coffee taken from the freezer six weeks later tastes better than coffee taken from the bag after only two weeks, especially with a light roast.

Endo (original poster)

#12: Post by Endo (original poster) »

So it seems coffee in a good storage bag with a one-way valve and flushed with nitrogen will last more than 4 weeks? Even 6 weeks perhaps? Maybe more?

I often buy 49th Parallel coffees. They have a webpage devoted to packaging but they make no mention of nitrogen.

http://www.49thparallelroasters.com/packaging.html

Somebody mentioned above that 49th Parallel uses nitrogen? If that is true, why don't they mention that?
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TeMpTiN

#13: Post by TeMpTiN »

While aging might help flavor develop over time you still have to be able to get the right ones in the cup.
While the out gassing proses slows it does not stop.
As most know oil and water do not mix well, the CO2 in the beans is what transports the oils into suspension.
If the CO2 transfer is to vigorous (really big bloom, blond bubbly shot) "beans too Fresh" it is not efficient some flavors get missed and some to strong and they will likely be out of balance. Since things are going so fast the CO2 boiling out can bring out both the undesirable sour and bitter components.
Likewise old beans (no bubbles at all in the press pot, no crema) do not have the energy to transport as much oil (flavor) into suspension leading to flat weak brew of any kind so that and other factors contribute to what I call stale.

As for peak the only way I know to find it is drink the coffee at least every 24 hours after the initial rest. When its really good brew more and enjoy, since tomorrow it wont be the same.

I have noticed coffee can in fact last for decades I found a few cans at an estate sale that were well old enough they could drive in that state. They were next to the machine with foam cups people didn't seem to mind but coffee in the Nebraska badlands is pretty rough. (nearest *$ at the time 75 miles)
So it will last a long time but at some point it is only good for taking the edge off the well water. End humorous but really anecdote.

PS Here is a Fun thread on this very subject over at CG
after you give it a quick read note the dates on the posts
I have 8 methods to make coffee and growing.
Dory
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timo888

#14: Post by timo888 »

Endo wrote:So it seems coffee in a good storage bag with a one-way valve and flushed with nitrogen will last more than 4 weeks? Even 6 weeks perhaps? Maybe more?
It depends what you mean by "last". On the shelf? After being opened?

If you open two bags at the same time, one of them a simple valve-bag, and the other a nitrogen-flushed bag (or can) containing beans roasted weeks or months earlier, the nitrogen-flushed older roast will deteriorate more rapidly over the ensuing days. That has been my experience at any rate, and you either have to drink coffee past its prime, or waste what is no longer fresh in which case you're not saving any money versus mail-order.

Generally speaking, the lighter the roast, the more rapidly it will deteriorate. You might get up to 10 days after opening on a light roast and up to 20 days on a dark roast. Those numbers are just rough averages.

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buzzmccowan

#15: Post by buzzmccowan »

Endo wrote:So it seems coffee in a good storage bag with a one-way valve and flushed with nitrogen will last more than 4 weeks? Even 6 weeks perhaps? Maybe more?

I often buy 49th Parallel coffees. They have a webpage devoted to packaging but they make no mention of nitrogen.

http://www.49thparallelroasters.com/packaging.html

Somebody mentioned above that 49th Parallel uses nitrogen? If that is true, why don't they mention that?
I think that in some circles Nitrogen flushing is considered a "no,no" (and I'm not 100% sure of the reason why). I have been told by more that one industry person that they practice it.

Endo (original poster)

#16: Post by Endo (original poster) »

timo888 wrote:It depends what you mean by "last". On the shelf? After being opened?
I'm referring to "unopened" bags.
buzzmccowan wrote:I think that in some circles Nitrogen flushing is considered a "no,no" (and I'm not 100% sure of the reason why). I have been told by more that one industry person that they practice it.
Interesting. I wonder why anyone would frown on Nitrogen flushing? Anything to preserve it longer would be better I would think, as long as it doesn't influence the taste.

ONE thing I'm very happy about is the fact that MOST good roasters now use a "roasted on" date. That should be a law as far as I'm concerned. :D
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drdna

#17: Post by drdna »

Deoxygenating the container is always a good idea, since it reduces the rate of oxidation of the beans which leads to stale flavors. As a rule, I prefer my coffee as fresh as possible; however, on occasion there are blends that give their best flavors a week or more after roasting. In these cases, I will flush the container with inert gas, like nitrogen, to allow the beans time to mature without oxidizing.

Of course you still have to use the coffee up quickly once you open the container. I suggest storing the coffee in several smaller containers flushed free of oxygen to allow it to keep longer. The home coffee aficionado can use "Wine Preserver" spray or "Whip-It" cannisters as easy to obtain sources of oxygen-poor gas.

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Endo (original poster)

#18: Post by Endo (original poster) »

I was only wondering about the life in the valve bag.

Once open, I always use it up in one week or store it in a "Vacu Vin" container (if I need to stretch it out a bit longer).
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drdna

#19: Post by drdna »

An unopened valve bag, or any oxygen-poor container should keep coffee fresh almost indefinitely. I have had beans from 2 months later that were still good. They went stale quickly after I opened the bag.

I have had pipe tobacco from a vacuum-sealed tin that was about 75 years old and it was still fresh, too. So I am pretty confident that unopened coffee valve bags will last a long time.

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#20: Post by IMAWriter »

OK, I'm going to offer a different take.
My home roasted Coffee roasted for the purpose of espresso use is roasted in a slightly different manner than the coffee I roast for vac pot/drip use. (I store both in 1 way valve bags. The best have valves made by Bosch, and are more expensive than the ones sold by folks on the coffee co-ops)
I find my espresso roasts generally lose crema, and flatten out taste-wise around 12 days after roast, though they are still wonderfully drinkable in milk or as an Americano. Remember, most folks are used to coffee a YEAR old, and often pre ground.
Now, my coffee roasted for vac pot/drip, etc, stored exactly the same will be delicious even a month after roast.
I attribute this to 2 things:
ONE, the non espresso roast is brought to 1st crack faster, and I shorten the roast times, with a generally lighter roast, most often to city+ (this of course depends on the varietal). Less stress on the bean itself.
TWO, and maybe more significant, brewing under espresso pressure exerts a lot of stress on the coffee, and as the coffee gets pasts it's prime, the loss of freshness is more easily discernible, as is the reduction in the crema.
Just my experience, YMMV.
Rob
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