Saka Gran/Crema Bar Extraction

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
Petraidm
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#1: Post by Petraidm »

I am placing my first order of Saka Creme Bar and Grand Bar and am looking for a great starting point for extractions.
  • If you have a Decent De1, what are the best profile/extraction parameters you have found for either or both?

    If you don't have a de1, what extraction parameters have given you the best results?

jpender
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#2: Post by jpender »

Pull it short and not too hot, declining pressure profile.

I have a Robot. I've been happy with 16g in and 19g out, give or take. The temperature probably starts at around 92°C and declines into the 80s by the end of the shot. No pre-infusion, just go, pressure dropping off by the end. 25-40s. Something like that, anyway.

I'm due for another bag soon.

ShotClock
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#3: Post by ShotClock »

I have a DE1, and have great success with the 80s espresso profile. I'd aim for a ratio of 1:1 for Crema bar, and 1:1.5 for Gran bar. A good shot time for me seems to be in the range of 35-45s.

For dark roasts like this, the dialing in process is a bit reversed. If you find the shot too bitter, it's best to grind finer to slow the shot down and therefore extract less. Low temp slow shots can give a really pleasant chocolate hazelnut flavor, I believe the Robusta leads to this hazelnut note.

Also, beware of the caffeine content of Crema Bar - I'd really recommend dropping 1-2g from your normal dose in order to avoid heart palpitations...

Petraidm (original poster)
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#4: Post by Petraidm (original poster) replying to ShotClock »

I have just started experimenting with the 80's profile trying to get something decent out of another coffee. Quick question: Are you targeting 35-45s for the total time or the extraction time?

We love caffeine (malabar gold is in my rotation) and are looking forward to the added jolt :)

ShotClock
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#5: Post by ShotClock »

Total time in the region of 35-45s. The preinfusion is very short, and normally the shot will run fast at the start, then settle to a steady rate. I think the steady rate between maybe 0.5-1 ml/s with higher Robusta content being towards the lower end of that range. Crema bar in particular should be around 0.5ml/s. Longer shot times are normally fine, but faster flow gets harsh and bitter very quickly.

Stephen_PH
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#6: Post by Stephen_PH »

I would greatly appreciate any experience shares on pulling the sweetest shots of Gran Bar. I have been working to dial in my first order of Gran Bar (through Cantina Coffee) over the past few days. My shots are consistently on the bitter spectrum. For reference, I'm using a 18g Decent basket (which I believe is the same as a VST?) and pulling 1:2 ratio in about 24s at 190F. I'm grinding at a 5 on my DF83 which is already finer than I have ever ground any other beans through the DF83. I'm feeling like I may be over extracting due to the fine grind and dark roast, causing the bitterness. However, if I grind coarser I get some real gushers. Welcome any advice on things to try to sweeten up my shots. Thank you!

ShotClock
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#7: Post by ShotClock »

I'd recommend dropping the temperature by maybe 10-20F compared with what you are using for a medium roast. I'd aim for a very short ratio, something like 1:1-1.5. Another thing that can help is a slower flowing basket like the EPHQ 14g, which can normally fit 18g or so.

Dropping the temperature and reducing the ratio should help to avoid overextraction. The lower temperatures should reduce the flow rate, but you may need to grind even finer for good results. Good luck!

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Jeff
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#8: Post by Jeff »

You may have much better luck with a more traditional, tapered basket. The EPNW HQ 14 are good ones to try at a very reasonable price. The ridged and ridgeless ones are different.

Dump the DE baskets, in general. They aren't considered VST equivalents among at least light-roast fans. It's not clear to me that VST baskets (or similar) are among the best choices for traditional espresso, now that many machines are shipping with higher quality baskets than decades ago.

dparrish
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#9: Post by dparrish »

Unless they've changed since I bought mine, Decent baskets aren't the same as VST. I use LaMarzocco's provided 20 g basket for shots of this coffee, with good results.

Yes, bitterness can be a sign of overextraction. I would grind finer. Aim for a 1:1 ratio.

Stephen_PH
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Joined: 4 months ago

#10: Post by Stephen_PH »

dparrish, Jeff, ShotClock,
Thank you all for sharing. I'm still learning and appreciate you taking the time to share. I have now pulled some shots at a finer grind, closer to 1:1, and have also used flow control on my ECM Synchronica to provide a little extended preinfusion (which extends duration of shot at overall slower flow). With these changes, I'm getting much better tasting shots. I have also ordered some EP HQ 14 baskets and look forward to trying those when they arrive.