Saka Gran/Crema Bar Extraction - Page 2

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
Milligan
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#11: Post by Milligan »

I haven't had Saka in quite awhile so I recently bought a kilo of Gran Bar. I haven't pulled Saka on my Decent until now. Last time I had it, I was using my GS3. I went with 17g in, 24g out, 185F temp, and used the "best overall pressure profile" for a decline to 6bar. Shot took 40s total. Great shot!

I had the grind wrong on the first shot and it finished in 24s. Astringent and slightly sour. We discussed Long shot time ristretto in another thread about longer times being beneficial to some darker roasts.

Curious to try the lever profile.

ShotClock
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#12: Post by ShotClock replying to Milligan »

I'd really recommend trying the 80s espresso profile. It's a lever type shot with no real preinfusion and a gentle ramp up (maybe peak pressure is 8 bar or so?). The real magic is the low temperature - the shot starts around 80C and declines toward 70C. This results in far lower bitterness, and much more by way of hazelnut and chocolate notes. The results that I got with this profile were orders of magnitude better than the lever profiles that I was using for medium roasts.

Petraidm (original poster)
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#13: Post by Petraidm (original poster) replying to ShotClock »

I agree on the 80's espresso profile! I also don't exceed a 1:1.5 ratio. For Gran Bar, I was targeting 1.1.5 and 1:1.25 for Creme bar

Milligan
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#14: Post by Milligan »

After about a dozen shots, Gran Bar tastes darker than I remember. Played with 80's espresso profile with ratios ranging from 1:1 to 1:1.5. Played with grind to try times ranging from total time of high 20's to high 30's. Not getting the creamy chocolate, nuts, and hint of spice that I remember being pretty stellar. I checked it on my Roastvision and came back with a 9-10RV which seems about what I remember roast wise, getting into dark.

I'll keep on playing. I remember talk about Saka doing well with higher temps than the roast would suggest so I may try that.

jpender
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#15: Post by jpender »

Milligan wrote:I remember talk about Saka doing well with higher temps than the roast would suggest so I may try that.
I don't remember that. Do you have a link?

I recall that being said of Caffè Lusso and Mr. Espresso beans but not Saka. No harm in trying though, as long as you have a sink nearby.

ShotClock
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#16: Post by ShotClock »

Tim - those shot parameters seem to be in the right ballpark to me, which basket are you using? I found my best results from the EPHQ basket, with a 16g dose or so. The IMS one with mesh on the bottom also worked okay, but I found that my regular IMS basket would be very easy to over-extract. Dialing in the grind I preferred to target the ending flow rate - for this coffee around 0.7-0.8ml/s if I remember correctly.

Milligan
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#17: Post by Milligan »

ShotClock wrote:Tim - those shot parameters seem to be in the right ballpark to me, which basket are you using? I found my best results from the EPHQ basket, with a 16g dose or so. The IMS one with mesh on the bottom also worked okay, but I found that my regular IMS basket would be very easy to over-extract. Dialing in the grind I preferred to target the ending flow rate - for this coffee around 0.7-0.8ml/s if I remember correctly.
I'm using my 17g LM basket that, from what I've read in the past, is like a VST. I don't have a lot of baskets since I typically don't keep a coffee around long enough to play with that many variables. I do use an upper puck paper mostly for cleanliness and a stiffer puck screen for turbo shots. I've got a lot more coffee to go so I'll continue playing with it.
jpender wrote:I don't remember that. Do you have a link?

I recall that being said of Caffè Lusso and Mr. Espresso beans but not Saka. No harm in trying though, as long as you have a sink nearby.
I do not have a link, it was only something I recall. If I find better flavor at a hotter temperature over the next few days then I'll spend sometime digging into the older posts to see if/where I read that.

Milligan
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#18: Post by Milligan »

Well, I ended up at a ristretto before the bitterness waned with Gran Bar which wasn't what I remembered. Once balanced its more roasty than I remember as well. I still get some chocolates but not the complexity. This is with 80s espresso profile and the "best overall pressure profile" using anywhere from 17in to 17/24out. 24 out was very bitter. All times within the 29-40s range. The lower times tasted harsher than the higher shot times. Sadly, I wouldn't say it is any better than a Lavazza. Perhaps I got a poor batch or something is strangely off. Perhaps my palate has changed since the last time I had it. I've got plenty left so I'll just use it for milk drinks. Curious if anyone else had some from the latest batch and what their thoughts are.

Last time I had it was on the GS3 with Niche and this time is a Decent with MC4 with Shurikones but I doubt that would be the major factor. Maybe the Shurikones are providing too much clarity for this blend?

jpender
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#19: Post by jpender »

Milligan wrote:Perhaps I got a poor batch or something is strangely off. Perhaps my palate has changed since the last time I had it. I've got plenty left so I'll just use it for milk drinks. Curious if anyone else had some from the latest batch and what their thoughts are.
I haven't had Gran Bar in a while but I drank Saka 90% of the time for over a year and found that the coffee wasn't always the same. I don't believe it was just my palate changing as sometimes I could see that the roast looked a little different. To be fair I've experienced similar variations with many (most) other roasters. Maybe Lavazza is more consistent. FWIW my notes say that I got good results from Gran Bar with a ratio as high as 16:25 but that was not the latest batch.

Did you have any luck with using higher temperatures?

Milligan
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#20: Post by Milligan replying to jpender »

I didn't. Best results were 80's default temp at a ristretto ratio. Some decent flavors emerged and it lost the roasty bitterness but did have a slightly raw/woody taste seep in that wasn't quite off putting but any lower temp would edge into the acrid range.

I had a friend come over today and he tried one at 17in 22out. He likes darker roasts but it was far too bitter for him. We dropped to 17in, 17out and he noted that it was much better but not something he'd want again.