Recommended beans/roast for Turkish?

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
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nixter

Postby nixter » May 27, 2011, 3:47 am

While I'm sure you could get away with using all kinds of beans roasted to various levels I wonder if there's any particular recommendations when triple brewing Turkish style?

Thanks!

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coffee.me

Postby coffee.me » May 27, 2011, 7:36 am

Truth is, I think the skill for preparing Turkish coffee is underestimated. Grinding, dosing coffee, dosing water, mixing them, using the right-sized and shaped vessel, applying appropriate heat, pausing, swirling, stopping, are all fine points worthy of H-B level geekyness.

I just came back from a trip to Istanbul. I stayed there for a week and the only coffee I drank was Turkish coffee. I think I visited about 30 or so roasters and coffee shops. All the coffee bags I saw were Brazil Santos, I asked all what coffee they used, and the answer was always: it's a Brazil.

While the cups I drank ranged from meh to wow, it seems every place was using low grade commercial Brazil coffee. It seems the excellent cups I got were the result of good technique & freshly roasted beans. The cups did vary very much, the better ones were clearly chocolaty and aromatic, while the lesser ones tasted like bad drip.

In general, beans were sold at two roast levels: either City+ or Vienna. The better cups I got had not even a hint of Brazil ashyness so I have to assume they were roasted to City+.

Now, after that trip, and having been served some great cups, I've decided to re-experiment with Turkish coffee myself. I started with using correct, top-grade, gear I got from Istanbul just to focus on my technique. I'm also using beans I got from roasters there who served me good cups. First lesson: it ain't just heating a coffee+water mix. Second lesson: it shouldn't boil even once!

I'm starting to get how it's done and about to start experimenting with beans. I'm going next with a fancy Brazil I roasted to Full City. I think once one acquires the skills and tools, beans/roast is just personal preference. To start: bad Brazil roasted to C+ :twisted:
"Beans before machines" --coffee.me ;-)

hperry

Postby hperry » May 27, 2011, 8:00 am

Useful post. Thanks much.
Hal Perry

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nixter

Postby nixter » May 27, 2011, 11:46 am

Thank you for the great response! Can you elaborate on the "no-boil" technique? Every guide I've read says to boil to a froth nearly overflowing 3 times. I'll admit that much of my results have been ashy with boiling.

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yakster
Supporter ♡

Postby yakster » May 27, 2011, 12:52 pm

I read somewhere that one of the techniques with Turkish coffee was to use light roasted beans and then before you start to make the coffee you actually do a bit of a second roast to the ground coffee in the Ibrik. This is supposed to help ensure freshness as the lighter roast will age slower and you'll be able to take it to the roast level that you want before brewing on a by-the-cup bases.

Roasting by the cup, I like it.

I've made Turkish a time or two (minus the secondary roast) and had moderate success. My understanding is that the foaming of the coffee actually comes before the boil... I think the part most challenging to me is being able to spoon off some of the coffee crema / foam into the cups and have it last when finishing and pouring off the coffee.
-Chris

LMWDP # 272

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Marshall

Postby Marshall » May 27, 2011, 2:44 pm

You may pick up something useful by following coverage of the first World Cezve/Ibrik Championship in Maastricht next month: http://www.ibrikchampionship.org/2011-event-in-maastricht/. With luck there will be English language reports. Otherwise, brush up on your Turkish, Armenian and Arabic.

This is part of the reorganization of the World Barista Championship into World Coffee Events, with the WBC now being one of several skill competitions. The WBC will be in Bogota next week: http://worldbaristachampionship.com/2011-bogota/
Marshall
Los Angeles

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coffee.me

Postby coffee.me » May 27, 2011, 5:10 pm

nixter wrote:Thank you for the great response! Can you elaborate on the "no-boil" technique? Every guide I've read says to boil to a froth nearly overflowing 3 times. I'll admit that much of my results have been ashy with boiling.

While I'm no expert, I can say with confidence that once boiled, Turkish coffee is no more. The key is to bring the mix to near boiling, thus creating an about-to-erupt-volcano like effect from the "crema" or foam, then removing it from heat. Whether you do this once or thrice is probably a matter of debate; for now, I'd just do it twice until I'm comfortable with everything else. I doubt the "3 times" is as important as dosing, heat application, or not boiling.

Again, use gentle heat, bring close to (but not to) boiling, then remove from heat. Gently swirl the cezve twice then repeat the heat application one more time, then pour into cup. You should get a thick layer of "crema" in your cup, it should be covering the whole face of the drink, and it should persist for a while.

I'd stick to making one cup at a time for now, use the one-cup (60ml, 2oz) cezve, not the two-cup or larger. I currently dose about 7+g coffee & 2oz water or so. I mix the coffee & cold water very well before applying heat. Here's my gear:

Image

Shopping in Turkey is tough if you want genuine items and real prices but it was a fun, fun, fun hunt. On the photo there is a Suzen grinder I bought from the workshop that actually makes them! I had a great time in that shop talking (using sign language most of the time) with them. They're great, great, people who do their work with care. You also see a cup shaped like a pear, this is a replica of of actual Ottoman items which I bought direct from the factory. Finally, my new cezve, this one is shaped (and made) like none I've seen anywhere else on the Turkish markets or the Internet; it has a very sharp taper and a large & deep spout. This is a copper item clearly made by hand and it shows, I only wish I could've identified the place that makes it and pay them a visit.

We (as in the Internet coffee community) have a resident Turkish coffee expert. I tried contacting her for help prior to my Istanbul visit but wasn't lucky enough to get a response, I hope she's still well. Never the less, over the years she has posted some great info that can be found by going thru her posts on H-B & CG:

kahvedelisi on H-B: /member/kahvedelisi/
kahvedelisi on CG: http://coffeegeek.com/members/kahvedelisi


yakster wrote:I read somewhere that one of the techniques with Turkish coffee was to use light roasted beans and then before you start to make the coffee you actually do a bit of a second roast to the ground coffee in the Ibrik. This is supposed to help ensure freshness as the lighter roast will age slower and you'll be able to take it to the roast level that you want before brewing on a by-the-cup bases.

Roasting by the cup, I like it.

I've made Turkish a time or two (minus the secondary roast) and had moderate success. My understanding is that the foaming of the coffee actually comes before the boil... I think the part most challenging to me is being able to spoon off some of the coffee crema / foam into the cups and have it last when finishing and pouring off the coffee.


Please note that a cezve is what's used to make Turkish coffee (you can see one in the photo above), an ibrik is a totally different device; this is a common misconception on the Internet.

While this double roast theory might sound romantic, it ain't what's actually common in Turkey nor does it make much sense. Spooning off the crema is something people discuss when making multiple cups using one cezve, in the espresso world that would be like trying to identify channeling without a naked PF, it can be done only once you have enough experience -- I know I don't ;)
"Beans before machines" --coffee.me ;-)

User avatar
allon

Postby allon » May 31, 2011, 12:20 am

coffee.me wrote:Please note that a cezve is what's used to make Turkish coffee (you can see one in the photo above), an ibrik is a totally different device; this is a common misconception on the Internet.


Okay, I'll bite - what is the difference?
From what I can tell, the shape of vessel required to make Turkish coffee is slightly sloped sides where the top is smaller than the bottom, but which then opens up again at the top for a small lip (so you don't spray your coffee everywhere when it starts to foam up).

Is the spout the differentiating factor?
What is you source for them being different things?
LMWDP #331

User avatar
nixter

Postby nixter » May 31, 2011, 12:41 am

read this thread for lots of good info including the answer to your question

How to prepare Turkish coffee

User avatar
SlowRain

Postby SlowRain » May 31, 2011, 12:59 am

If anyone is interested in a Sözen Turkish mill, the internet vendor I bought mine from has a specific website for international customers. The grinder is, apparently, one of the top-rated grinders in Turkey.
Espresso shrine--> viewtopic.php?p=256899