After reading this thread I ordered 2 bags. Opened the first bag on day 7. 18in 36out using a double HQ basket. I tried temperatures from 205F down to 200F with extractions ranging from 28secs through 40secs. Finished the first bag without one single drinkable shot. Depending on the parameters I got different levels of achyness, but the ashy flavor was a constant and basically the only flavor note. Even with milk that flavor would punch right through and make the latte very unpleasant. Halfway through the bag I decided to detergent flush the group and clean the grinder just in case, but that made zero difference. I am using an E61 DB with a niche zero. I have had darker roasts that are way more pleasant than this. Any suggestions before I open the second bag?

The HQ basket runs quite a bit slower than a precision basket like the decent/vst/pullman, so I'd suggest pulling a longer shot at 17-18g in, 40g out at 205. In my testing, any extraction less than 19% tasted what you were describing. Let me know how that goes.

F1 wrote:After reading this thread I ordered 2 bags. Opened the first bag on day 7. 18in 36out using a double HQ basket. I tried temperatures from 205F down to 200F with extractions ranging from 28secs through 40secs. Finished the first bag without one single drinkable shot. Depending on the parameters I got different levels of achyness, but the ashy flavor was a constant and basically the only flavor note. Even with milk that flavor would punch right through and make the latte very unpleasant. Halfway through the bag I decided to detergent flush the group and clean the grinder just in case, but that made zero difference. I am using an E61 DB with a niche zero. I have had darker roasts that are way more pleasant than this. Any suggestions before I open the second bag?

This is consistent with my experience. Just cant get past that ashy smokey flavor and its a huge turnoff for me. I've tried quite a few different profiles on the DE1 and all give the same ashiness.

I'm going to email Cafe Lusso and see what they think I might be able to do....

I tried running a faster shot with a higher output of 40g out of 18g as recommended by ReignDrops, but the flavor was basically the same. The coffee is very consistent in that changing the parameters has almost no effect on the flavor, but unfortunately that flavor is not great at all. I never got a hint of any of the notes written on the bag. I feel like I tried everything and I am a bit confused as to how this particular coffee is "liked" by so many.

Nate42 wrote:Try to do a lower extraction, coarser grind, minimal preinfusion, lower temperature, ratio closer to ristretto side, that sort of thing. I wouldn't recommend a VST basket as those push you toward finer grind and higher extraction also. If that's all you have though should be fine with right grind dose and ratio. It's a pretty forgiving coffee in my opinion but it extracts very easily so if you want to minimize roastiness you need to do the opposite of what you might typically do with a lighter coffee

This is the advice I would follow. The 2020 notes for the GMC had most people pulling it at 1:1.5.

Also, I'd distinguish between 'ashy' (like cigarette ash or fireplace ash) and 'roasty' or smokey (characteristic of darker coffee roasts). Ashy is never desirable, and can result from over extraction and high temperatures. Roast and smoke are rich flavors that are a desirable feature to many--like all Starbucks coffee.

I just got a new bag in and will open it tomorrow and see if somehow things are different with the beans, but have to say I have never yet tasted 'ashy'. Sure... there is a mild smokiness but it is roasted coffee after all.

I will check back in tomorrow morning after 'espresso' time.

So... opened new bag this morning (roast date 2/13). Pulled 2 shots, one toward ristretto and one toward lungo... keeping the grind and temp constant but upping the dose to slow the flow.

1. I did the 'toward ristretto' shot first, because I really wanted to try and see if I could get a sense for how something might taste 'ashy' and figured this would be where I would taste it. I put 19.2g in 18g VST basket which yielded around 31g out in 30sec. PID said 219F at start and dropped to 202F by the end (this is pretty typical on my machine, and to be honest have not yet tested to see how close it matches the temp coming out of the head). As much crema as coffee (mixed it in with a spoon) and it was syrupy and had a strong roasty flavor but not unpleasant to me (to me would have been a great shot for a cappuccino). I sat in the "tasting zone" for a bit and tried to get to a sense of ashy, but couldn't. I did wonder if it tasted darker than normal... but really couldn't tell.

2. Next shot: 18.6g in 18g VST basket yielding 40g out in 30sec. PID temps read roughly the same (220F - 203F) This is the ratio/output I generally shoot for, and in general GCM always seems to be pretty forgiving for me at least based on my setup. Taste-wise, I felt like it was the same bean I had been enjoying: medium-dark roasty taste, smooth syrupy mouth feel (thanks I imagine to NZ fines), and what to me tastes like a caramel finish.

I know there will always be a lot of subjectivity on tastes, so I can neither apologize for my own nor what may be the difference between ours... but I do feel bad that perhaps I could have better described what to expect to spare your time?

skink91 wrote:I do feel bad that perhaps I could have better described what to expect to spare your time?

Nonsense. This started because you were excited to share that a coffee tasted real good. That's what these forums are here for.

Reading between the lines, I'm surprised folks are struggling with this. It's a darker comfort blend. That strongly suggests a coarser grind (and therefore not a high flow basket), tighter ratio (1:1 to 1:1.7-ish), lower temperature. Complaints came from ratios like 1:2 and longer. It seems there was an intent to match the higher extraction of a VST when a lower extraction may be desirable.

If the OP is wanting to further tailor a coffee he knows he likes, I'd suggest doing something closer to Nate42's advice. Adjust flow by grind, not dose, and grind coarser. Use a non-VST basket if you have one. Stop the shot by ratio, not time. Time might be as short as 20 sec, and that's ok (but aim for more like 25-30). Try it at different ratios. You can leave the grind alone in middle positions until you find the ratio that's best for you, then tweak it to optimize. The goal will be to extract enough to develop the sugars for that caramel finish but keep it tight enough to preserve mouthfeel and flavor intensity. A coarser grind is important to this, and using a slower basket is important to keep that from becoming a turbo shot.

Silvias did like to be flushed and surfed to get a stable group temperature. I never used one with a PID, but it might be worth dialing that temp down a couple degrees then flushing a couple times before your pull. The stock basket would use a smaller dose, but be reliable for these experiments. An EPHQ or La Marzocco 18g baskets are good ways to accommodate higher dose without going to a high flow.

Curious if anyone with a RoastVision has tested this coffee? Would be interested to know where it measures on the scale. Thanks!

This is one of my go to blends and I find that it often needs a bit longer of a rest before it starts tasting good. Over a week at times. I am pulling on a Robot with a Niche grinder