Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
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#1: Post by Ro-Ro »

Any input on coffee analysis? It seems to me that vendors are dodging full disclosure whilst 'recently' mold control is going mainstream among certain vendors @ 3X price.

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BaristaBoy E61

#2: Post by BaristaBoy E61 »

Welcome to HB Ronaldo.

Maybe you have to change roasters/vendors. Look for roast date info on the beans you buy if you aren't already.
"You didn't buy an Espresso Machine - You bought a Chemistry Set!"

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#3: Post by SteveRhinehart »

I'm guessing you are alluding to the claims made by Bulletproof Coffee and its head "guru", that many or most coffees available for commercial sale are full of mold-borne toxins that are harming your health and only Bulletproof Coffee has taken that problem seriously. Until some copycats came along, presumably.

I've worded it somewhat snidely because coffee is full of shysters who love a marketing gimmick. The simple truth is that nobody else is talking about it because the claims are not taken seriously. Actual evidence of mycotoxins in roasted coffee shows that the amounts are trivial. There is no substantial evidence at this time of some kind of mold-borne health epidemic in coffee. There are much bigger, much more important issues in coffee that we'd love for consumers to care about more - such as the ongoing price crisis, and climate change.

Much the opposite of your question: we're intentionally moldifying coffees because it can turn out to be delicious. Check out a koji-process coffee if you're curious. The cherries are fermented with aspergillus oryzae, or koji mold, to achieve flavors in the coffee not found during typical processing and fermentation methods.
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#4: Post by AZRich »

There is an epidemic of metabolically unhealthy people in the modern world directly related to the food we eat. Coffee is probably so far down the list that it is irrelevant. Insulin resistance and pre-diabetes are directly caused by what people ingest and estimated to now be 1/2 or more of all people in the US.
Eat meat, not plants!


#5: Post by nicholasnumbers »

Mold is very easily identifiable during coffee grading. All of these claims are nonsense.

Any consumer that buys specialty coffee should never encounter mold defect.



#6: Post by archipelago »

Hey mate, I can tell you with certainty that in a random sampling of specialty grade coffees I did-which ranged from 80.5 points (strip picked, low grown Brazil naturals) to 88 points (high grown washed coffees), none of the lab cultures detected aflatoxins of any sort, nor OTA. This fits findings from FAO at the UN which basically showed, tl;dr that specialty coffee producers handle the areas of the greatest risk through drying protocols.

I developed the koji process currently in vogue and can tell you with certainty that we are starting with spores that have been lab-replicated and genetically screened to ensure that these strains of A. orzyae do not produce aflatoxin.
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Randy G.

#7: Post by Randy G. »

I have heard not a word about this until this thread was begun. As stated earlier in this thread, consider what most consumers purchase under the guise of 'food.' Ever read the label of "Carnation Coffee Mate"?
Corn syrup solids, hydrogenated vegetable oil (coconut and/or palm kernel and/or soybean), sodium caseinate (a milk derivative)**, 2% or less of dipotassium phosphate, sodium aluminosilicate, mono- and diglycerides, artificial flavor, annatto color.
** Not a source of lactose.
The only possible nutritional value in it is 15mg of "Potassium."

With the amount of coffee consumed in the US, and level of inspections done when raw food products are imported, if this sort of mold was a real problem we would have heard a lot more about it.
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#8: Post by archipelago »

Randy G. wrote:With the amount of coffee consumed in the US, and level of inspections done when raw food products are imported, if this sort of mold was a real problem we would have heard a lot more about it.
I mean, to be fair to OP, the topic is relatively new and only really entered mainstream consciousness because of hucksters like Dave Asprey/Bulletproof (who, btw, used to buy their coffee white labeled from a well-known roaster in PDX. It was just a generic mechanically washed Guatemalan coffee).

However, it is well-known in commercial roasting circles - particularly those of us who are under FDA regulatory authority or ship to EU or Japan. both EU and Japan have legal limits for mycotoxins in place and in the US, compliance with FSMA regulations requires us as roasters to control the hazard in our food safety plans. It's a real and genuine thing, legally speaking-but in reality, doesn't really much apply to specialty.

The coffee that is most likely laden with mycotoxins is low-grown Arabica picked under- or overripe, dried on patios without sufficient hygiene or inadequate turning, dried insufficiently (above 0.60 water activity), and stored poorly (in jute without GrainPro, or in high-humidity and high-heat environments).

Ro-Ro (original poster)
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#9: Post by Ro-Ro (original poster) »

Nestlé - they're in the top 5 dragons.

Ro-Ro (original poster)
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#10: Post by Ro-Ro (original poster) »

Thanks Cris. Will check it.