The "light" thing: Gotham North vs Counter Culture Coffee Hologram

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
nuketopia

Postby nuketopia » Apr 01, 2019, 5:47 pm

There have been a number of threads about "light" roast coffees that kind of went off kilter in a contest of "that's not light, this is light."

The biggest problem being a lack of measurable references available to home coffee enthusiasts. There are industry standards for degree of roast and how to gauge it by color. There are two different Agtron scales, Agtron being a vendor of electronic color metering instruments specifically for measurement of coffee and other food items. These instruments are intended for labs and industry and are quite expensive. There are also sets of color tiles available from the SCAA for about $300. I'm considering purchasing a set for myself. Just seems like a lot to pay for what amounts to 10 paint chips.

It is absolutely impossible to compare photos of different coffees taken with different cameras at differing times under different lighting conditions. It's been tried and that goes absolutely no where.

Among the coffees that did get mentioned as "very light roasts" repeatedly, were Leam Hammer and Gotham Degrees North.

I tried Leam Hammer and really liked it, but got into that whole, "that's not really light" thing posting about it. I found it worked quite well with my rig: Monolith Conical and Linea Mini, in spite of the conventional internet wisdom that holds it impossible for conical grinders and espresso machines with no pre-infusion to do so.

So I thought I'd post this comparison of two well known coffees, under the same lighting conditions, with the same camera at the same time for visual reference:

Attached are samples of Counter Culture Coffee Hologram, roast date of 3/18/2019 and Gotham Degrees North 7.34 by 2.94, roasted 3/27/2019. Photo taken side by side, iPhone X under remote-phosphor LED 93CRI 2700k lighting.

Image

Image

User avatar
LBIespresso

Postby LBIespresso » Apr 01, 2019, 6:30 pm

Thanks for posting this. It might even be interesting to see how our various screens that we are looking at influence what we all see in those photos.

I assume Hologram is on the left and it almost appears to be a slightly coarser grind.
I like coffee. I like coffee people. LMWDP #580

nuketopia

Postby nuketopia » Apr 01, 2019, 7:02 pm

Both samples ground at identical settings. Grinder thoroughly emptied, brushed clean, and purged with 5 grams of the respective sample (single-dose Monolith Conical grinder) to be sure of no contamination of the coloring.

I think I'll hold off announcing which is which for a bit.

As the thread title says, one is Counter Culture Hologram, the other is Gotham Degrees North.

samuellaw178
Team HB

Postby samuellaw178 » Apr 01, 2019, 7:05 pm

The monitor/screen definitely does affect how color is represented. I was made aware of this when I worked on dual screen setup to prepare a powerpoint slide and saw that the same pictures looked completely different. Perhaps there is a way to calibrate the screen color, but I am not an expert in that department...

That being said, if one of the above pictures included the ''light Leam Hammer" then yes, I don't think it's not quite as light as some of the lighter stuff out there. It's more a medium-light roast to me. In Melbourne you can also get 'filter' roasts that looked like they haven't even touch 1st crack and the caramel colour is apparently absent (pale/yellowish brown rather than chocolate/coffee brown).

As long as you enjoy the coffee, does it matter how light it is? :lol:

Alternatively, you can also start doing home roasting, and play with different levels of ''lightness". :P

User avatar
Moka 1 Cup

Postby Moka 1 Cup » Apr 01, 2019, 7:59 pm

nuketopia wrote:I think I'll hold off announcing which is which for a bit.

never had the other one but Hologram is the one on the left.
four minutes to make an espresso? really?

nuketopia

Postby nuketopia » Apr 02, 2019, 1:32 am

The ground coffee samples are Left = Degrees North. Right side = Hologram.

The unground beans are Left = Hologram. Right = Degrees North.

The ground samples are very, very close to each other. The Hologram is just barely, almost imperceptibly, slightly darker than the Degrees North to the naked eye in strong light. They are virtually the same. That close.

I'm wondering if the Degrees North is a melange blend, roasted separately and then blended, it looks like two different roasts. The unground Degrees North is more visibly different and lighter than the Hologram unground. But it isn't a whole lot different.

michael

Postby michael » Apr 02, 2019, 1:12 pm

On my screen (iPad), the Leam Hammer beans look a little lighter, hard for me to distinguish the ground coffee

I thought the Leam Hammer was vg and fairly easy to prepare; also liked the geshe botto from barrington

What are people liking that's lighter than the leam hammer 8)

nuketopia

Postby nuketopia » Apr 02, 2019, 2:35 pm

Just to be clear, there are no Leam Hammer beans or grounds in my pictures.

michael

Postby michael » Apr 02, 2019, 5:52 pm

Sorry, brain error, meant the degrees north 8)

guydebord

Postby guydebord » Apr 03, 2019, 12:31 am

nuketopia wrote:I'm wondering if the Degrees North is a melange blend, roasted separately and then blended, it looks like two different roasts. The unground Degrees North is more visibly different and lighter than the Hologram unground. But it isn't a whole lot different.


I was at Gotham Roasters today talking about Degrees North while drinking a V60 made with Kenyan Karimikui Peaberry beans :D . It is indeed a post-roast blend (melange) developed over two months of experimentation for "specialty coffee nerds" (this is a literal quote from one of the roasters that worked on the blend) with a taste for the light side. Needless to say, they are super proud of it. For me, Degrees North has become a current standard for light roast done right, I prefer it over the Leam Hammer and certainly over Hologram.
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni