The "light" thing: Gotham North vs Counter Culture Coffee Hologram - Page 2

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
culturesub

Postby culturesub » Apr 04, 2019, 1:28 pm

None of these coffees are light roast. For roasters doing light roast, look at Sey, Passenger, Drop, La Cabra, April, to name a few. These are American medium roasts masquerading as light roasts.

michael

Postby michael » Apr 04, 2019, 1:50 pm

I'm curious, think I'm going to try the Ethiopia reserve lot from passenger; anyone have any experience with this 8)

guydebord

Postby guydebord » Apr 04, 2019, 4:14 pm

culturesub wrote:None of these coffees are light roast. For roasters doing light roast, look at Sey, Passenger, Drop, La Cabra, April, to name a few. These are American medium roasts masquerading as light roasts.


:roll:

We get it, you are a Sey fan. I like them too, their Francisco Valencia cup of excellence from Mexico has been one of the top beans I tasted this year. But your comments in the forum about light roasts are unsubstantiated and express a lack of knowledge in the debate of what is a light roast. In NYC, where we both live, Sey, Regalia, Parlor, Gotham/Prodigy, Spectrum and some other folks roasting at the Pulley Collective roast light and each of them, some master roasters, have their own perspectives on light roasting and bean development, however, all of them would agree that its just that, a perspective, since there is no dictionary definition of what is a light roast. I know all of them, and to me all of them know how to roast and develop light when they want to, since they stop the roast process a bit before, on, or a bit after the first crack at a temp between 350F and 400F, and a good roaster will determine this in relation to the type of bean, origin, altitude, etc. The color of the bean means little when faced with the roasting equation, Im curious where do your assumptions come from.

Some of the arguments of what is and what isn't light are so pubertal, to the likes of: mine is bigger than yours, or if I know/like lighter I have it bigger... Seriously? Im sure we can do better in this forum.
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni

edpiep

Postby edpiep » Apr 04, 2019, 7:00 pm

culturesub wrote:None of these coffees are light roast. For roasters doing light roast, look at Sey, Passenger, Drop, La Cabra, April, to name a few. These are American medium roasts masquerading as light roasts.


Nah man, you gotta add Tim Wendelboe, The Barn, Heart and maybe even Elm in that list to REALLY rep light roasts, plus throw in Starbucks Veranda Blend for good measure... :wink: lol. This is great, let subjectivity have it's place at the light roast table though. Craft roasting isn't yet a consistent enough art/science to really get all puritanical about what is/isn't a light roast. As long as it isn't underdeveloped, which in my book is NOT a subjective term (to another the underdeveloped roast defect might be super en vogue or palatable) or too roasty (this to me IS subjective) then it's drinkable and potentially enjoyable but maybe not as "light" as I would like. "Too light" vs. "Not light enough" is talking about preference, "light roasts" i.e. light roast levels are better defined using an Agtron reading of >70...or is it 61-70?????

Btw, I love SEY as well and would try all the others on your list in a heart beat.

nuketopia

Postby nuketopia » Apr 04, 2019, 8:26 pm

Objective standards exist for roast levels. The SCAA uses the Agtron Gourmet Coffee scale. Light is well defined, at least in industry. Unfortunately, the Agtron spectrophotometer is fairly expensive. The SCAA offers a set of 10 color tiles that reflect this standard. It's $300. Maybe I'll buy one.

Coffeereview.com lists the whole bean and ground Agtron numbers on its reviews, which is really helpful and objective way to measure and communicate it.

So, if you want to specify an actual product that I can buy, I'll try it. It looks like Sey offers a number of coffees. I looked at Leuchtfeuer, but being outside the US, somewhat less practical for me to purchase.

Now, let's talk about roasts.

Some of you are pointing at roasts which appear to be cupping roasts, or even very underdeveloped roasts and unsuitable for use as espresso, or brew methods for that matter. There comes a point that a roast is insufficient to be usable for preparing espresso beverage, no matter what grinder or equipment is used.

In the very incredibly light roast bucket:

I have had Yemeni white spiced coffee. It's more like tea. Didn't much care for it.

There is a hipster trend of white coffee prepared on espresso machines, made from barely roasted beans. Haven't encountered it.

So for a third time, specify a light roast coffee that can be prepared as espresso and I'll buy it and try it.

edpiep

Postby edpiep » Apr 04, 2019, 8:56 pm

I'm confused, most of the above roasters have Nordic style roast approaches which seem to be benchmarking a lot of "light roast" profiles these days.

If you want an espresso blend that I've had then I would try a bag of Tailored Coffee Roasters "The Mixtape" blend out of Eugene, OR. They are a super small roastery and always had lighter and brighter coffees on my visits (minus a darker noted Rwanda). Haven't been there in awhile though so I can't say if things have changed at all, everything is $15 or so and they do a nice job.

max

Postby max » Apr 05, 2019, 11:27 am

guydebord wrote::roll:
Some of the arguments of what is and what isn't light are so pubertal, to the likes of: mine is bigger than yours, or if I know/like lighter I have it bigger... Seriously? Im sure we can do better in this forum.


I think you are reading too much into it. Light roast complex? :D

Suggesting that people hold differing opinions just to be able to size up their e-peen is narrow minded and does not bring the discussion forward.

I know well what coffee I prefer, and I know several who share these preferences. One common property of these roasts is that they seem lighter than most (without underdevelopment, of course). I don't understand why some take issue with others liking lighter roasts...

nuketopia wrote:Objective standards exist for roast levels. The SCAA uses the Agtron Gourmet Coffee scale. Light is well defined, at least in industry. Unfortunately, the Agtron spectrophotometer is fairly expensive. The SCAA offers a set of 10 color tiles that reflect this standard. It's $300. Maybe I'll buy one.

It seems like you would be much better off buying a Tonino. I used to have one, but unfortunately do not recall the numbers I would get from the very light roasts (like Drop).

nuketopia wrote:So, if you want to specify an actual product that I can buy, I'll try it. It looks like Sey offers a number of coffees. I looked at Leuchtfeuer, but being outside the US, somewhat less practical for me to purchase.

You have been given several suggestions both here and in the previous thread. These have all been suggested in both threads:
- La Cabra has free shipping on their sampler. I can recommend them.
- April was said to have free shipping (I have not verified). I can also recommend.
- Drop is quite expensive to ship anywhere outside of Scandinavia, but I recommend them.
All of the above can be extracted to yield very good espresso.

edpiep

Postby edpiep » Apr 05, 2019, 1:34 pm

max wrote: You have been given several suggestions both here and in the previous thread. These have all been suggested in both threads:
- La Cabra has free shipping on their sampler. I can recommend them.
- April was said to have free shipping (I have not verified). I can also recommend.
- Drop is quite expensive to ship anywhere outside of Scandinavia, but I recommend them.
All of the above can be extracted to yield very good espresso.


I second these recommendations as well. If I wasn't clear earlier my intention was to communicate that most of the Nordic roasters mentioned have reputations for "light roast" coffees AND they have the stability to be used in any brewing method. As already stated this means they can yield great results as espresso shots. I sold my espresso machine not too long ago and I haven't been able to sample many roasters as espresso lately but I have no issues with lighter roasted espresso shots at all, love them in fact.

jeffmattel

Postby jeffmattel » Jun 12, 2019, 12:45 am

To the OP.

What parameters are you using with CCC Hologram? Grams in/out, temp, time, days post roast. I got two bags heading my way and would like to know where to start. thx

nuketopia

Postby nuketopia » replying to jeffmattel » Jun 12, 2019, 4:08 am

Good discussion on this thread:

La Marzocco Home Espresso Subscription - Counter Culture Hologram and Field Trip

It was LaMarzocco's home subscription a couple of months back in March. You can read the roaster's notes there:

https://home.lamarzoccousa.com/espresso-sub-ccc/