Is anaerobic coffee just not my cup o' tea? - Page 2

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
skittles_s
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Joined: 13 years ago

#11: Post by skittles_s »

OP,

Do you feel your palate is off generally or just with coffees - as in, can you still sense and appreciate nuances in other food items? In the current age, it's worth considering a confounding factor.

But, yes, some anaerobics are just plain nasty. That Klatch Guji will haunt me the rest of my days!

Drewskie (original poster)
Posts: 98
Joined: 1 year ago

#12: Post by Drewskie (original poster) »

To be honest, I believe I have a horrible palate amd normally eat extremely bland, boring meals. However, coffee has always been my one exception to that. Like previously mentioned,. lately most of my coffee has been downright bad, but I find then anaerobics to be even worse.

Disclaimer that I hadn't thought of before: I never tried The anaerobic process coffees when I was actually making good cups, so it's very possible that is a combination of my poor technique and the coffee itself.

Ben Z.
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#13: Post by Ben Z. »

I think they were alluding to post-covid taste/smell loss. Not uncommon nowadays.

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luca
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#14: Post by luca »

Covid was something that I was also thinking of.

What I'd add is that 'anaerobic' and 'carbonic maceration' are fairly spectacularly uninformative terms. Basically the only thing that you can be sure of is that they probably involved some attempt to prevent air or oxygen from getting to the coffee at some stage. But how, and for how long, varies widely. The coffee cherries might have been put in a stainless steel tank and flushed with carbon dioxide under temperature controlled conditions for just a few hours, or they might have been chucked in a garbage bag that was knotted closed and left in the sun for a few weeks. Some of these coffees taste almost, or actually, indistinguishable from washed coffees or naturals.

If particular mention is being made of the coffees being anaerobic, it's likely that the processing probably had long fruit contact. Personally, I hate most of these coffees. They are usually described as having all manner of fresh fruit flavours, but I usually find that, at best, they taste like a rotten version of that fruit, and they often have flavours that others have mentioned - but that don't get mentioned in taste descriptions - like soy sauce, miso, sharpie and jackfruit.

Underlying all of this, I think that the coffees I've mentioned above are basically the polar opposites of clean washed coffees when it comes to extraction and peoples' point of view. People that love these coffees often hate washed coffees, finding them bland and acidic. What I wonder is if this comes down to extraction. Acidic, light roast, washed coffees really need to be extracted hard to get the aroma out of them and if you don't do that, then they can be bland and acidic. By contrast, the very strongly flavoured anaerobics often smell strongly of what you taste even in the green coffee before they are roasted. Wave water anywhere near them and you're sure to get a hit of their distinctive flavours. They have the opposite problem from washed coffees; you extract them too hard and you bring out all of the worst characteristics. So what I'm wondering is if, at least in part, peoples' preferences come down to the gear that they have and their extraction methods. If you have a grinder that struggles to hit, say, 16% extraction or you insist on brewing filter with a very high dose and low yield to get a very high TDS cup, then you may be more likely to like these intense anaerobics. Conversely, if you have dialled in your light roast washed coffees that require a ridiculous extraction yield to not taste like lemon juice, they may pull out all that you hate the most from anaerobic coffees. So if you have any anaerobic coffees around that you find questionable, maybe make some adjustment to dramatically lower the extraction yield and see if you like them any better - eg. make your grind way coarser and/or run way less water through a filter brew (and perhaps add some bypass if necessary to get the TDS you want).
LMWDP #034 | 2011: Q Exam, WBrC #3, Aus Cup Tasting #1 | Insta: @lucacoffeenotes
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Drewskie (original poster)
Posts: 98
Joined: 1 year ago

#15: Post by Drewskie (original poster) »

Ben Z. wrote:I think they were alluding to post-covid taste/smell loss. Not uncommon nowadays.
I definitely thought about this, especially because I remember reading last year people saying coffee specifically tasted much different after a positive diagnosis.
As far as I know, I've never caught it although it would make sense. And also not sure if it would last this long since it's been about a year of bad tasting coffee.

InfamousTuba
Posts: 36
Joined: 2 years ago

#16: Post by InfamousTuba »

One of my colleagues lost his sense of taste for over 18 months and another had altered taste for over 12 so although it is unlikely it is possible

skittles_s
Posts: 227
Joined: 13 years ago

#17: Post by skittles_s »

Exactly what I was alluding to - a post-infection issue. There are so many variables at play. If there's an issue apparent outside of coffee, at least you could then avoid the frustration of worrying about technique, equipment, extraction, etc.

K7
Posts: 416
Joined: 4 years ago

#18: Post by K7 »

luca wrote:Underlying all of this, I think that the coffees I've mentioned above are basically the polar opposites of clean washed coffees when it comes to extraction and peoples' point of view. People that love these coffees often hate washed coffees, finding them bland and acidic. What I wonder is if this comes down to extraction. Acidic, light roast, washed coffees really need to be extracted hard to get the aroma out of them and if you don't do that, then they can be bland and acidic. By contrast, the very strongly flavoured anaerobics often smell strongly of what you taste even in the green coffee before they are roasted. Wave water anywhere near them and you're sure to get a hit of their distinctive flavours. They have the opposite problem from washed coffees; you extract them too hard and you bring out all of the worst characteristics. So what I'm wondering is if, at least in part, peoples' preferences come down to the gear that they have and their extraction methods. If you have a grinder that struggles to hit, say, 16% extraction or you insist on brewing filter with a very high dose and low yield to get a very high TDS cup, then you may be more likely to like these intense anaerobics. Conversely, if you have dialled in your light roast washed coffees that require a ridiculous extraction yield to not taste like lemon juice, they may pull out all that you hate the most from anaerobic coffees. So if you have any anaerobic coffees around that you find questionable, maybe make some adjustment to dramatically lower the extraction yield and see if you like them any better - eg. make your grind way coarser and/or run way less water through a filter brew (and perhaps add some bypass if necessary to get the TDS you want).
I think you are spot-on here. With anaerobic and often standard naturals as well, I find the more I try to extract, the nastier they get. Which is also why I didn't recommend finer grind to the OP's acidity problem. Go easy on extraction and I can often reduce the ferment note to a tolerable level and bring out the fruitiness to the front. I just had a Burundi anaerobic pour over using this approach and all sorts of berry flavors described by the roaster were nicely pronounced with minimal ferment funkiness. Like you said, people who are used to high EY gear/approach for washed SOs may need to adjust their approach quite a bit for anaerobics and naturals. It took me a while to figure it out. :)

jedovaty
Posts: 537
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#19: Post by jedovaty »

Consider taking a break from the hobby, maybe a couple months. This may result in caffeine withdrawal for a couple days, depending on various physiology, and could even send you into a haze-like state for a week or two. Then it clears up. The coffee will still be here, waiting for you.

Drewskie (original poster)
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#20: Post by Drewskie (original poster) replying to jedovaty »

I think it's not just a hobby but a full blown addiction, honestly.