The hunt for best Italian roasted coffee beans - Page 47

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
Posts: 3903
Joined: 12 years ago

#461: Post by jpender »

Sugarbeet wrote: I've managed to measure extraction by measuring refractive index with a cheap optical meter. I estimate the final extraction precision estimation at around 0.5%.

I definitely do not recommend trying to pull "regular" 30s shots as in my experience this got me to 27.1% extraction.
Are you sure about that number? I'm curious about the details of how you determined that.

Posts: 29
Joined: 1 year ago

#462: Post by coffee_maybe »

My experience with classic italian roasts and blends has been mostly positive. My go-to recipe is usually 16 or 17 grams in 30 out in 25 seconds. What I feel really changed my experience tho was changing the temperature to 90c....maybe even 90c. I think that out of everything this is one thing that really helped. I have a Lelit Anna so i'm not sure how accurate the temp settng is - maybe 90c on the Anna results in actually even lower temperature, I don't know. I have always overlooked temperature with all brewing methods meaning that I knew that big changes can be felt but 2-3c I thought would not make a difference. WIth these roasts it really helped tho.

That all said, while I usually rotate between freshly roasted coffee and grocery store italian beans, I definitely like these type of espresso. There is something really simple and enjoyable about it and tbh I find it work much better in a latte.

I can strongly recommend Vivace 82 by Pellini. It is a arabica/robusta blend. I'm not sure about the robusta content since Pellini, like all big brands doesn't share the exact percentage but it is a great blend once you properly dial it in.

Posts: 12
Joined: 3 years ago

#463: Post by logjames »

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread! I just had a few kilos delivered, some which were mentioned here and I plan on working my way up and down the boot (and northern Italy) trying anything else that I manage to get my hands on...or at least until I get bored.


User avatar
Posts: 85
Joined: 10 years ago

#464: Post by zammie »

Sugarbeet wrote:I definitely do not recommend trying to pull "regular" 30s shots as in my experience this got me to 27.1% extraction. This was essentially undrinkable because of horrible bitterness with all robusta containing coffees. One example is a 13.1g in 34.3g out, 5s pre infusion 33s shot. I could probably make two large cappuccinos with it and both would taste pretty strong (smokey, nutty, peaty, but not very coffee-like).

Then I tried going the other way by essentially going to the other extreme. 12.7g in 32g out, 5s pre infusion 10s shot. This was 17.6% but it was actually quite nice. Not too bitter, drinkable and enjoyable on its own, but too weak for a milk drink.
Interesting! I just opened a bag of Lavazza Super Crema and my first shot was 15g in, 22g out in 20s. It was citrusy sweet, much lighter than I expected. I would call the result a third-wave style shot.

Second shot was 14g in, 30g out in 40s and it was less acidic, more bitter and balanced. This seemed to me closer (but no cigar yet) to what I remembered drinking in Italy.

Even with the same coffees as the Italians, it is possible to extract different flavours and profiles from the coffees based on our preferences.

LMWDP #455

Capuchin Monk
Posts: 1272
Joined: 15 years ago

#465: Post by Capuchin Monk »

zammie wrote:Even with the same coffees as the Italians,
But you are likely using older beans due to shipping distance. There is a noticeable flavor difference between roasts that are 2 weeks old vs 2 months old.

User avatar
Posts: 85
Joined: 10 years ago

#466: Post by zammie »

Pretty sure you are right. But my point is more about being able to draw out different flavours based on changing the brewing parameters.

LMWDP #455

Posts: 29
Joined: 1 year ago

#467: Post by coffee_maybe »

Speaking about brewing parameters - what is the temperature you are all using when you approach italian roasts. On my Lelit i've found that 90c works best with arabica/robusta blends. I know that in the puck the actual shot temperature would be lower. I've wondered about going as low as 89c too. I think that when we talk about darkly roasted fragile beans with robusta in the mix - this helps a lot.

As a quick update - I've been currently playing with a bag of lavazza caffe crema dolce but have a hard time bringing the best out of it. It is some new blend I think.

Posts: 10
Joined: 2 months ago

#468: Post by coffeeyoutoo »

I gave a lecture on water for espresso.
The students were owners of specialty roasters.
Lavazza's gold selection was used as a teaching material.
I presented the perfect Italian espresso to my students.

Machine: synesso mvp hydra 3gr
grinder: mythos one
Extraction boiler temperature: 93 degrees Celsius
Indoor temperature: 19 degrees Celsius
*Temperature is important. If your indoor temperature is higher than mine, you should lower the extraction boiler temperature.
Basket: VST 20g
16g dose / 28g extraction / 22~23 seconds
KH (carbonation hardness) 38~40ppm
Straight 9 bar setting

Lavazza gold selection was fantastic.
It had the nutty flavor of well-roasted almonds and a deep sticky sweetness.
The texture was like heavy cream.
When the sugar was dissolved, the cream-like texture disappeared and it tasted like dried fruit.
Students were shocked

What's more surprising is
I used 2 bags that were roasted 6 and 11 months ago.
Both were very good
I admire their roasting know-how and packaging technology.

Posts: 29
Joined: 1 year ago

#469: Post by coffee_maybe »

Interesting - I think that 93c is a bit too high for most italian blends. At least with other Lavazza/Kimbo beans it has always resulted in super bitter shots. Not sure about this blend to, but i'm scared to try such a high temperature.

User avatar
Posts: 85
Joined: 10 years ago

#470: Post by zammie »

Currently I am drinking Super Crema and brewing between 91-93C. I find this a quite forgiving blend.

Btw, I found info on Aramatico's website which mentions that Pellini Vivace No. 82 blend is 60% Arabica beans and 40% Robusta beans.

LMWDP #455