The hunt for best Italian roasted coffee beans - Page 46

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
LucaFg
Posts: 95
Joined: 4 months ago

#451: Post by LucaFg »

The darker roast of Neapolitan tradition comes from spanish domination of Regno di Napoli or Regno delle Due Sicilie. In Spain and Portugal they still use more intense dark roasting today, just as in Neaples. In Northern Italy they prefer medium roast, they never reach the second crack.

Capuchin Monk
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Joined: 15 years ago

#452: Post by Capuchin Monk »

mathof wrote:For the amount of money and time you are spending on this quest, it might be more efficient (and a lot more fun) to spend a weekend in Naples visiting coffee bars.
That would be THE way to find out, being at the place. 8) Also, my guess is that it's easier to get there from northern Europe than from USA.

Sugarbeet
Posts: 48
Joined: 4 months ago

#453: Post by Sugarbeet »

mathof wrote:For the amount of money and time you are spending on this quest, it might be more efficient (and a lot more fun) to spend a weekend in Naples visiting coffee bars.
:D time, maybe, but money-wise not quite. I think I spent about ~$60 on the whole thing. That's how much I'd spend on fuel just getting to the airport... (about 2h away). Having said that, visiting Italy (and Naples) is on my list of things to do, but probably not in 2024.

In case it's interesting to someone, here is what I paid on that "quest" so far (converted to USD, all taxes and shipping included): (shipping locally is often just $1)

- locally just roasted dark "Italian Espresso" 30% Indian Robusta 250g - $9.9
- Kimbo Aroma intenso 250g "neapolitan" (supposedly roasted in November, really in August) - $7.85
- Passalacqua Espresso Bar Vesuvio 500g (roasted in June) - $15.44
- 1kg locally roasted, no more than 7 days past roast "espresso creama" with 40% robusta (one of first orders I made, but it hasn't arrived yet) - $23.85

Edit: Just to add, being able to get this kind of coffee for a low price is one of the reason why I went ahead to try it. If it cost $35 a 250g bag I'd probably not do. Darker roasts and blends are significantly cheaper here than single origin coffee. For example one if my daily favourite light roasted SO coffees (few days past roast, SCA 84) costs $14 for 250g, the higher SCA rating the more expensive it gets as expected. For example another local roaster currently sells a Salvadorean espresso (medium) roast SCA 88 for $38 for 250g. So one can spend as little or as much as one wants here on coffee.

Petraidm
Posts: 51
Joined: 2 years ago

#454: Post by Petraidm »

Anyone in the US know where to purchase Caffe Hausbrandt from? I can't find it on the Hausbrandt, espresso-international or aromatico websites. Has it been discontinued?

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Balthazar_B
Posts: 1725
Joined: 18 years ago

#455: Post by Balthazar_B »

Sugarbeet wrote::D time, maybe, but money-wise not quite. I think I spent about ~$60 on the whole thing. That's how much I'd spend on fuel just getting to the airport... (about 2h away). Having said that, visiting Italy (and Naples) is on my list of things to do, but probably not in 2024.

In case it's interesting to someone, here is what I paid on that "quest" so far (converted to USD, all taxes and shipping included): (shipping locally is often just $1)

- locally just roasted dark "Italian Espresso" 30% Indian Robusta 250g - $9.9
- Kimbo Aroma intenso 250g "neapolitan" (supposedly roasted in November, really in August) - $7.85
- Passalacqua Espresso Bar Vesuvio 500g (roasted in June) - $15.44
- 1kg locally roasted, no more than 7 days past roast "espresso creama" with 40% robusta (one of first orders I made, but it hasn't arrived yet) - $23.85

Edit: Just to add, being able to get this kind of coffee for a low price is one of the reason why I went ahead to try it. If it cost $35 a 250g bag I'd probably not do. Darker roasts and blends are significantly cheaper here than single origin coffee. For example one if my daily favourite light roasted SO coffees (few days past roast, SCA 84) costs $14 for 250g, the higher SCA rating the more expensive it gets as expected. For example another local roaster currently sells a Salvadorean espresso (medium) roast SCA 88 for $38 for 250g. So one can spend as little or as much as one wants here on coffee.
You should give Saka a call and ask about their pricing. Minimum order is 6 kilos, but freezing what you're not using at the moment works quite well.
- John

LMWDP # 577

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peacecup
Posts: 3649
Joined: 19 years ago

#456: Post by peacecup »

A nice artisianal blend I got lately, even has the roast date!



Italian blends are not vacume packed, they are packed with one-way valves with N or CO2 to prevent oxidation. If you freeze a properly-sealed bag the gas will condense and it will appear to be vacuum sealed. They do last many weeks if properly sealed and frozen.
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

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peacecup
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#457: Post by peacecup »

I've visited Campanga near Napoli, and the espresso I make at home with properly-sealed "best before" Italian blends is better than most of what I was served in Italy.
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."

LucaFg
Posts: 95
Joined: 4 months ago

#458: Post by LucaFg »

Wow, it looks magnificent! Arabica Brazil and Robusta Indonesia! Roasters are near Bari, Puglia. Good choice indeed!

Sugarbeet
Posts: 48
Joined: 4 months ago

#459: Post by Sugarbeet »

After having finally dialled in both the commercial Italian Neapolitan style coffees and locally roasted equivalents I have some conclusions I'd like to share from a point of view of someone who mainly drinks lightly roasted coffees.

First, despite them not being that dark these coffees have to be ground substantially coarser than even medium espresso roasts I typically would get. To the point where I got the best results with Passalacqua on my la pavoni europiccola lever machine at 5s pre infusion and ~18s with last 4s contributing very little liquid. Even with such a short shot I still got 23.5% extraction.

Best results were achieved grinding into a separate container, shaking to declumping, then transferring to the portafilter, tapping followed by a strong tamp.

I've managed to measure extraction by measuring refractive index with a cheap optical meter. I estimate the final extraction precision estimation at around 0.5%.

I definitely do not recommend trying to pull "regular" 30s shots as in my experience this got me to 27.1% extraction. This was essentially undrinkable because of horrible bitterness with all robusta containing coffees. One example is a 13.1g in 34.3g out, 5s pre infusion 33s shot. I could probably make two large cappuccinos with it and both would taste pretty strong (smokey, nutty, peaty, but not very coffee-like).

Then I tried going the other way by essentially going to the other extreme. 12.7g in 32g out, 5s pre infusion 10s shot. This was 17.6% but it was actually quite nice. Not too bitter, drinkable and enjoyable on its own, but too weak for a milk drink.

Eventually I arrived at the 23.5% extraction described first and I dialled all these coffees to similar results. This is drinkable and enjoyable mostly with a little sugar to further hide bitterness, or in diary drinks.

Rospresso
Posts: 18
Joined: 1 year ago

#460: Post by Rospresso »

The above mirrors my experience, also with a La Pavoni (pre-millennium), with several of the Saka blends and a bag of Morettino I found at TJ Maxx. Best results were ground coarsely (3E-3H on my Baratza Vario with the steel brew burrs) and flowed fast-ish. I am getting a ristretto (11g in, 16-18g out) in about 12s after 8s preinfusion. Shots were sweet, smooth, complex, and easy to drink without milk or sugar. Pulling them cooler than the usual light roasts. Longer pulls were punchier with some bitterness coming in.

As an aside, the Morettino blend I found was called "Extra" and is no longer listed on the Morettino website. It has a best-by date of September 2025, leading me to believe it's not that old? Has anyone else tried that one? I like it but will probably never see it again...