jeffg2020 wrote:I would assume there would be a sort of temperature shock to the beans if you ground & exposed them to hot water while they were still at freezer temp. But maybe not...

After you have put them through most grinders , are they still even at this temperature ?

I was reading through this and was wondering when the discussion about freezing would come up because it was something I was curious about. I haven't frozen beans myself yet because I never buy so much at once that I need to freeze them. BUT, when I did buy 5lbs at once I vacuumed sealed a large portion of the beans with a food saver and 1 month down the road it was still fresh and good to go as espresso.

I think storing in a vacuum container really does help preserve them for much longer. Beans kept in airtight container tastes good to me as a pour-over for 3 weeks. I usually drink light roasts.

Another instance I think is interesting in regards to how beans are stored is I bought medium roasted beans on Kauai island, and they kept it in these like large 5-10gallon industrial container with a snap-on lid. I was kinda surprised and they just put it in a brown paper bag. I didn't have any airtight containers with me while traveling and so I transferred it to a Ziploc bag. 6 days post roast is when I purchased it and it was fine for the last 4-5 days I was there. I got home, forgot about it, then tried it about 2.5 weeks post roast where it was kept in a plastic Ziploc bag and when I brewed it, it tasted like butt. Lost anything that was enjoyable before, which was a pronounced red grape acidity.

My experience is that beans past 2 weeks do not stay fresh neither aromatic and taste. That's base on smell and taste and not science.

Nick Name wrote:For espresso I much prefer to use beans that are under 15 days old, but I wouldn't jump straight out of the window if they'd be closer to one month. Beans start to lose "fresh taste" after roughly two weeks, slowly becoming duller. It's not so big deal if you're not making espresso. With espresso you're kinda looking for trouble with beans older than one month.

Saying that beans are good for 2-3 months is often heard. Well, they certainly aren't at their best anymore but of course they won't go bad in a sense like meat or dairy products would go.

Since coffee is all about taste, if older or fresher coffee taste the same for someone, then there is not much difference for him/her. It is not the same, but does it really matter if that someone can't tell the difference? Probably not.

If that someone can taste the difference, then the answer is obvious.

Agree with everything here. For general brewing methods 2-3 months is great. I would consider them fresh beans.

For espresso up to a month and you're not really losing out on anything. Week 2 the beans are at peak and a pleasure to drink. Weeks 3 & 4 you really aren't missing much and you're still going to have great espresso.

Off gassing is really tough to nail down and know what you have. 2 days up to a week depending on the roaster and beans.

Roasted coffee should be in dry cold climates, humidity is the worst enemy.

I roast my coffee and kept it in 250g sealed with valve bags and it fells my coffee machine grinder hopper but it never stays with me more than 3 days. I consider the coffee still fresh once I grind it the aroma Smell show directly and extraction time goes slower if still at same grinding degree.

Consider me a High Coffee Consumer & Addiction

I think green coffee stales faster than I had previously thought. I have some fresh Ethiopians and Costa Ricans, which I am comparing to the same coffees from last year. The difference is night and day. I am going to start freezing fresh crop green beans instead of letting them sit at room temperature. This should help preserve some of the freshness over the next year until the new harvest arrives.

As for roasted coffees: I find that my home roasted coffees taste good for months in the freezer. I haven't had one that tasted noticeably stale. I have noticed that coffee from professional roasters seems to get stale in the freezer, or at the very least change in flavor. The beans lose the sweet, smoky aroma. My theory is that this is due to some difference between drum roasting and air roasting. With drum roasting, the beans absorb more roast and smoke tones, which are volatile and fade away quickly. Hence, they change taste, even under the best storage conditions. The air roasted coffees have little to no smoky flavors and are therefore more stable.

My tentative conclusions are the following:

Green coffees are best consumed within a few months from when they arrive at port. If you want to consume them later than a few months after they arrive, it's best to freeze them.

Roasted coffees are good for about a week at room temperature. If frozen -- ideally immediately after roasting -- they can stay good for months.

Drum roasted coffee tends to go stale faster than air roasted coffee.

It's way more complicated than that.
There are many factors related to what is perceived to be stale.
Look at Lavazza pre-ground espresso, roasted in Italy shipped to the US, which is pretty close to garden mulch for me.
I have had people tell me Lavazza is the best ever, so it depends on your expectation and perception of whats good.
It's no different than liking dark roast or light roast coffee, love one hate the other.

RD
Drink what you like, like what you drink.

Ferrariandcoffee wrote:Don't you guys think it's all about the density of the beans?

The more dense, the longer it takes for flavors to develop?

The less dense, the faster they off-gas and go stale

Avast wrote:I think green coffee stales faster than I had previously thought.

George Howell would agree with you. He freezes all his greens as soon as they're delivered.

I think it explains why the same roasted coffee ordered from the same roaster several months apart rarely tastes the same, with later batches almost always being inferior. I find this this effect most pronounced with natural SOs, where fruit flavors tend to fade after the greens have aged for several months.

When I get 5 lbs of greens or more, I vacuum pack all of it and freeze at least half. I try to roast the rest within 30-60 days.

I agree with a lot of what's been said about roasted beans, but some of the pronouncements (like beans losing freshness after 2 weeks) are generalizations that don't apply to all coffees and brew methods. For example, some ultra-light espresso roasts need at up to three weeks of rest after roast before they'll fully extract. In my experience, dark roasts (which I don't drink) can be brewed or pulled pretty much right away, assuming that it takes at least 1-3 days for delivery from the roaster. I rest medium roasts 5-6 days after roast, and light roasts 10 days or more (usually, but not always, the lighter the longer.)

Peppersass wrote: I agree with a lot of what's been said about roasted beans, but some of the pronouncements (like beans losing freshness after 2 weeks) are generalizations that don't apply to all coffees and brew methods. For example, some ultra-light espresso roasts need at up to three weeks of rest after roast before they'll fully extract. In my experience, dark roasts (which I don't drink) can be brewed or pulled pretty much right away, assuming that it takes at least 1-3 days for delivery from the roaster. I rest medium roasts 5-6 days after roast, and light roasts 10 days or more (usually, but not always, the lighter the longer.)

I am in agreement with the statement above. From my experience, the lighter the roast the longer you have to let them rest before their full extraction potential can be achieved. This is the same for both espresso and filter methods.
Generally, i would consider medium to light roasts "fresh" up to about 2 months or so.

SiempreTuParceroMike wrote:Sorry if that was confusing. Let me try again:

1) Buy beans on day they're roasted (a truster local roaster happens to be located 10 min from me)
2) Wait 2-3 days
3) Start pulling shots
4) About 6-9 days later (8-12 total), I notice flatter flavor/less voluptuous crema

This is my experience as well, especially in terms of the crema.