Espresso is ruined - Sigh! - Page 3

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
Nick Name

#21: Post by Nick Name » May 04, 2019, 10:17 am

Crotonmark wrote:Generally if I grind finer I choke the machine.
I'm on a manual lever machine
Then lower the dose and grind finer, pull slower, and/or rise the temperature.

When you pull your shot, do you use the "fellini technique"?
i.e. Do you do any pre-infusion before you extract the coffee? Pre-wetting the puck enhances extraction, and helps to prevent channeling.

The 'Fellini Move' in Pictures
Fellini does espresso ...

Anyhow, basically what I do with my Caravel is that I slowly pull the lever down until the first drops start to appear (not drip) from the filter (I use a bottomless PF), then lift the lever back up again (to fill the chamber) and then pull the shot. For my Caravel I have never used more than 15g dose and I usually end up with something between 20-25g depending on the beans. I try to keep the time roughly around 30s (the 2nd pull, not including the pre-infusion).

You don't have to make the second pull immediately after you've lifted the lever. You can let the puck soak for a few seconds (or more to try how it affects the taste).

If you won't succeed with the tips given above, you could post a message into the lever forum for a machine specific assistance. Maybe also post a video of your technique to youtube (and link it in the forum message) to help people see if there is something to correct (or if there is nothing to correct).

If you can't make a video, then it helps to give as much information of your preparation and the whole process, in order to avoid beginning the thread with getting multiple questions of how-you-do-this and do-you-do-that. It will speed up finding the solution.


#22: Post by sluflyer06 » May 04, 2019, 10:47 am

Ive got 2 words for you.

Caffe Lusso.

Nick Name

#23: Post by Nick Name » May 04, 2019, 10:53 am

Phaedrus wrote:Thanks for posting those links, very informative. While I can't speak for the OP (although I suspect there may be agreement); I don't want my coffee to have hints of berries or fruits (at least, not regularly and definitely not in the morning) - I want it to have hints of caramel and chocolate. I'm still searching for the perfect coffee and that's why I'm super interested in what the OP discovers. It's also why I'm still fascinated with spring levers.
Then high grown East-African coffees aren't certainly your cup. :wink:

Perhaps this link will help you to the right direction: ... -the-world
James Hoffmann's book The World of Coffee is a great source. I think the second enhanced edition is just out.

And maybe you should try some natural processed coffees f.ex. from Brazil. Also SHG (strictly high grown) beans may not be the best choice for you, maybe look for coffee grown less than 1500m above sea level.

Coffee from Guatemala Antigua region is often described as chocolaty and nutty. It tends to have also some citrus notes if roasted lighter, but it does take darker roasts pretty well. Colombian coffee might tick you boxes too.


#24: Post by Phaedrus » replying to Nick Name » May 04, 2019, 1:21 pm

This is super helpful. Thank you!

Nick Name

#25: Post by Nick Name » May 04, 2019, 1:56 pm


Oh, and BTW the name of Hoffmann's book is actually The World Atlas of Coffee. Highly recommended.


#26: Post by Phaedrus » replying to Nick Name » May 04, 2019, 2:26 pm

Ordered! Thanks again! And thank you; Amazon Prime one day. :)

Nick Name

#27: Post by Nick Name » May 04, 2019, 4:08 pm

One more thing for the OP:

If your temperature is not high enough (something like 93-94C or so), you will have very small chances to succeed extracting 3rd wave espresso properly.
Dark roasts extract way easier than lighter roasts, so a temperature that works well with Italian roasts may be far too low for 3rd wave roasts.

With a dark roast, you might even get away with temperature slightly under 90C, but I doubt there would be hardly any chance to get anything drinkable out of a 3rd wave roast.


#28: Post by guydebord » May 04, 2019, 4:28 pm

If you are able to take a cab, a walk or subway ride you are very close to the kind of bean you want, there is much more of this available in NYC than 3rd wave.

I'm at the opposite end of you. I cannot drink a non acidic dark roast or anything with robusta and 75% of the time the coffee available belongs to this category. Do you want Italian roasts? Just go to Eataly on 23rd or if you care to walk around even more tourists go to little Italy. Don't like tourists? Go to your nearest Italian deli.... if you want a locally roasted bean go to Puerto Rico roasters in the West Village, want roasted in the USA? find any La Colombe, or go to a Citarella, hell, even at any Whole Foods you can find local Dark roasts.

Espresso is not ruined, IMO it's way better today than in the dark "Italian" times. But if you fancy that, just go out, NYC is full of options for you. But something tells me that your technique also needs some tweaking.
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
★ Helpful


#29: Post by voozy » May 04, 2019, 4:59 pm

Randy G. wrote:"How Much Would You Pay for a Cup of Coffee?."At the equivalent of $27 a pound locally, you really have to want it! :wink:
How about $75 a cup in person, or $75 for 6 ounces shipped? They actually advertise it as the world's most expensive coffee, sheesh ;). ... perience-1

(Actually don't know whether "in person" gets you just 1 cup or the whole 6 ounces)
Everyone drinks Voozy.


#30: Post by guydebord » replying to voozy » May 04, 2019, 5:12 pm

This is one of many reasons I dislike Klatch.... :?
It is not the worlds most expensive coffee and definitely it is NOT the Worlds Best Espresso!
In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni