zin1953 wrote:However, a limited number of Cabernet Sauvignon wines have long been described as having an aroma of "menthol-eucalyptus" -- specifically in terms of Napa Valley Cabernet, the two most closely associated with this eucalyptus quality are the Heitz Cellars "Martha's Vineyard" Cabernet Sauvignon and the Turnbull (neé Johnson-Turnbull) Estate Cabernet Sauvignon.

[Driftiing a tad more here] We bought several bottles of Heitz, including a some of the Martha's Vinyard, on our honeymoon in Napa in the summer of 1993. Most of them are long gone , but I still have a bottle of the famed 1984 Martha's Vinyard. I remember drinking another vintage of the Martha's Vinyard (I think it was the 1987) and thinking it had a distinctly grassy flavor. Maybe that was the eucalyptus. Guess we should drink that 1984 pretty soon, though it was a massive wine and I think the recommendations are still Hold or Drink. What do you think, Jason?

At 25 years of age, I'd drink it . . . given all the usual warning re: proper storage, etc.,e tc., it could be a fantastic bottle of wine! But have something handy as a backup, just in case . . .

Enjoy!

Cheers,
Jason

Jason...thanks for covering my back
Due to your vast knowledge of wines, I'm positive your olfactory senses are more finely tuned than mine, but it's always fun when you grind a bean and POW, there's the blueberry, or cardamom, etc.

"Do the fancy flavors used to describe coffee actually exist?"

If you believe the flavors exist, then they do for you. Nobody can tell you what you're tasting is wrong. So, what does it matter if somebody says that your favorite brew tastes like gym socks after a 20 mile run? Have you ever tasted gym socks after a 20 mile run? How would you know then? Frankly, somebody has serious clothing issues....

Coffee is said to have over 1000 volatile compounds. Over 40 of those compounds are attributed to the aromas that allure us to it (like cocoa) or repel us from it (like smelly socks). And since the sense of smell has everything to do with how things taste, that makes for a very complex flavor profile. It's difficult to adequately express in a single sentence--or, in a single paragraph for that matter. Understanding the chemistry of coffee is just the beginning of comprehending why this is the second most coveted commodity on the planet, second only to crude oil.

Where coffee is grown, such as its elevation, ambient temperature, soil components, and how much sun it gets has a lot to do with its flavor profile.

One commonality exists with all coffee beans of any variety, shape, size, or where cultivated. Their flavors, individual characteristics and quality ratings may change slightly or radically from one growing season to another.

As with any cultivated crop there are many factors that affect the final product. If the weather is too dry the fruit will not ripen properly. Too wet a season and the fruit will be water logged, bloated and rot. How well a local government oversees the cultivation of the crop and how well the work crews are managed will affect the quality. Picking too early or too late. How wet or dry the weather during the drying process. How the exporter blends the beans with other regional crops. They all affect quality. Finally, how the roaster or customer roasts the beans makes a big difference in determining the final outcome. Of course, how old the bean is after roasting can really make that cup of Joe or espresso float your boat or sink it straight to the bottom of a skunky sea. From cultivation to cup so many things can go very right or terribly wrong....

Next year the whole process starts all over again. Results are guaranteed to vary.

So, as this year's favorite bean blend grown in your favorite region, by your favorite plantation might impart those delicious flavor nuances that you enjoy so well, next year it might be too earthy, or too smoky, or too spicy, or too fruity, or too bright prompting you to seek those palate pleasing, nose perking, eyes opening, memory stirring flavors from another growing region of the globe.

This year it might be Ethiopian. Maybe next year it will be Kenyan or Burundian. But one thing will be certain. Despite whatever delightful bean blend that currently thrills all of your senses as it awashes your taste buds with liquid heaven, your coffee stash will, by virtue of ever diminishing reserves, require replenishing. And, hopefully, that next shipment of green, potential nirvana will be as uniquely inspirational and satisfying as providence, your roasting skills, and brewing techniques allow. Because, anything less than a cup of perfection is just swill that's suitable only as a drain cleaner, as a hint for stay-too-long relatives to leave, for people that only drink instant, and for the venerable compost pit.

"Ah, coffee, to many it's just a beverage but to me it's the elixir of life."

Interesting thread. I also have a hard time with some of the more fanciful descriptions out there, but I can definitely make out the majors, caramel, sweet, earthy, bright, chocolate, and a few others. Also, lets not underestimate preparation of the cup. I remember when I first got my Aeropress, I grabbed some beans I had been using for drip (dont remember now what it was specifically). I made my first cup and BAM! orange peel! I had been using the same beans for a week and never noticed orange peel in the drip coffee I was making from them. A little pressure in the extraction, probably a different brew temp, and I was getting all kinds of new flavors coming out in the cup.

I had a batch of my regular espresso blend I usually roast come out very chocolaty once - so much that my wife accused me of putting chocolate syrup in her cup. I had been experimenting with roasting the different components differently to see what effect it would have. Sadly, I wasnt smart enough to take notes of what I had done, and was never able to reproduce the "super-chocolate" batch.

The point is, there are MANY factors along the way that influence what you taste. Think of the taste profiles some things possible from a particular coffee. The roast, the grind, the brew method, brew temp, brew time can take the same beans many different ways.

This my understanding from a molecular biology point of view.

Flavor is composed of taste and smell. The currently accepted five basic tastes, sourness, sweetness, bitterness, saltiness, and umami are what is present in our taste buds. Smell is much more complex. Approximately about 2% of the human genome is somehow responsible for smell. Spiciness is separately carried by the trigeminal nerve. The combination of taste, smell, and signal from the trigeminal nerve gives us "flavor".

In experimental settings, only 5% of population can taste "coffee", if their nostrils are blocked. The other 95% will need the sense of smell in order to conceive the flavor of coffee.

Now, about 25% of population is anosmic to any particular smell due to genetics. Because of this, it is no surprise that the description and flavor don't necessarily match. Furthermore, starting age 40, the sense of smell deteriorates, and by age 80, only about 50% of our smell remains. So drink coffee fast and young.

chang00 wrote:In experimental settings, only 5% of population can taste "coffee", if their nostrils are blocked.

I forget the percentages now (it's been a l-o-n-g time since I was in college), but an overwhelming percentage of people cannot taste the difference between 7-up and Coke if a) their nostrils are blocked, b) they cannot see the two beverages, and c) they are served cold.

It sounds like we're all agreed that the flavours are there (and the flavors).... it's just what we call them that's problematic....

I finally bought my first bag of SO beans last Saturday. I've stuck to the popular blends up until now as I didn't want to play around with yet another variable until my brewing skills could produce something drinkable, relatively consistently, which I now believe they are. Anyhow, the bag is an Ethiopian Sidamo from 49th Parallel roasters which I tried out for the first time this morning. It was really nice! Fantastic even! As I mentioned when starting this thread though, I'm unable to draw any taste parallels beyond that. Ok, maybe it tasted brighter as some say? The bag mentioned raspberry and cocoa. Nope, none of that for me. Just damn good. Plenty of flavor, but just flavor that reminds me of well... good espresso. *sigh*

Here's what the bag said, "Raspberry, sweet apricot and a base of cocoa. Favourable acidity that is in balance with the rich texture. Sweet, refreshing and clean."

I'm reminded of when someone says to me, "Hey doesn't so and so look like Steve Buschemi?". No, not really but I can see what you mean. It's like, I can see what they are trying to convey with the flavor descriptors but it just seems a huge stretch to me. But I suppose for lack of a better way to describe the flavor of espresso I understand the point.

I can see what they are trying to convey with the flavor descriptors but it just seems a huge stretch to me.

Yes, that has been my experience as well, alas! (Yet, I still roast; and enjoy drinking the stuff everyday.)

Howard