Coffee with strong butterscotch, sticky toffee pudding/dark caramel notes

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.

#1: Post by tautology76 »


I'm looking for a daily driver espresso for lattes with these characteristics, preferably single origin that can be reproduced with consistency. I find that to get this note the roast often has to be between medium and dark. I typically make a 10 or 12oz latte in the morning, with a double or triple shot depending on the coffee and amount of milk.

Here are some of the closest I found in the search of the ideal:

1. Ninth st espresso (daterra mundo novo)- excellent but a bit on the chocolate side
2. Medici Papua New Guinea (very close but disliked the grapefruit note)
3. Huckleberry blue orchid/civitas (I found the blue orchid to be great but the note eas only evident for a few days post roast)
4. Vivace yellow bourbon (with also notes of orange, amazing but discontinued). Possibly my all time favorite espresso in milk as the orange marmalade note was surprising but enjoyable.
5. Gracenote Colombia el narino : so far the closest to the ideal.

What I have tried that is not close:

1. GMC from lusso: too mild and chocolatey
2. Intelligentsia black cat classic : way too mild
3. Josuma malabar: way too leathery and dry
4. Vivace dolce and vita: not what I'm looking for
5. Klatch: please don't recommend anything from these guys, I've tried many and none is close so far. The most overrated roaster imo (I used to live close to them)

I'm not looking for the typical snickers bar (like the old red bird and most daily drivers people suggest out there). I'm looking for a persistent dark caramel note which is typically in a medium dark roast (approaching but not quite a northern Italian roast in most cases although some variation is acceptable with varietal)

I use a decent espresso machine with best results with the Damian lrv3 (I modified the temps a bit and pre infusion paramers) and adaptive (for roasts leaning more towards medium).

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#2: Post by PIXIllate »

Hatch Gamma, Blackout and Supernova

tautology76 (original poster)

#3: Post by tautology76 (original poster) »

The hatch da terra sounds great, too bad it's sold out.
I'll probably try their blackout first

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#4: Post by PIXIllate »

Gamma is the closest to a modern Northern Italian.


#5: Post by Intrepid510 »

Mr Espresso Neapolitan Blend, there is an Organic and non Organic. Both are good but they are different. You should be able to find the nonorganic version at World Market

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#6: Post by spressomon »

Not single origin but currently using Tony's Coffee Carmelita in cappuccinos and it delivers big caramel and toasted nut at 1:2.
No Espresso = Depresso

tautology76 (original poster)

#7: Post by tautology76 (original poster) »

Tried some of these suggestions.

All of them tasted straight and in a 8 oz cap.

Gamma from hatch: chocolate with some weird floral/citrus notes. Interesting but not my thing at all. I found it best at 16g in, 26g out after trying several ratios. Corn out a bit short of 30s with setting 10 on my niche. Tasted harsh at high temperatures so I brewed it at the equivalent of about 199F on my decent espresso. I used the adaptive profile with modified temp.

Blackout from hatch: this was the closest, still working on it but brewed at the same temp it needed a slightly longer pull. 16g in 28g out short of 30s. Dark chocolate with a hint of molasses. I'd prefer it the other way around. This is by far the best coffee I tasted.

Daterra from hatch: I bought this out of curiosity, it's a very light roast that had to be pulled at 1:3, I did 15g in and 45out and had to use high temp and a long pull close to 40-50s. Very interesting coffee that makes a summery cappuccino with orange and caramel notes/
Just not my typical goto. Would prefer this roasted a bit more. It was difficult to dial in.

Mr espresso: I bought the trio. It seems they all taste the same but just vary the roast level. Basically I found the triestino to be the best one, but they were all boring and very leathery/ dark chocolate.

Best results in taste (all ground at 10.5 niche)

Neapolitan 1:1 15g in ground at 10.5 low temp
Tuscan: 1.35 ratio same grind and dose low temp
Triestino: 1.7 ratio same grind and dose Normal temp

It seems to me all of these have some robusta in them? They reminded me a bit of the Josimar malabar gold in flavor. They are all one dimensional leathery/dark chocolate harsh coffees, with the triestino being the most balanced. Yea they are Italian style but not particularly interesting. I would not recommend any of them.

Blackout is the n1 recommendation out of these, with the Brazil daterra being second if you want something light.


#8: Post by toolate »

interesting how everyones mileage varies. i don't get that leathery harsh vibe from Josuma at all.
In fact i have been very pleasantly surprised. Only thing i don't like much is it seems really caffeinated...

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#9: Post by Jeff »

Robusta usually has higher caffeine levels than arabica.

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#10: Post by PIXIllate »

Your notes seem about right for the Hatch. I recently finished a bag of the Daterra Sweet filter roast. It was pleasent but nothing that blew me away.

You might try hotter with some of them. I use 202F with the natural declining temperature profile of my e61 and a flow profile similar to what your doing with the Lrv3. I don't really vary dose or basket from 18g in the VST18 and most of my shots are 32-34g out. I just don't like the loss of intensity and mouthfeel of longer ratios.

Don't be afraid to grind finer and run the shot longer. I'm normally 34-40 seconds total time with about 2g in the cup at 20 seconds.

You might also try Lavazza Super Crema. Buy a bag and put it in mason jars are freeze it immediately upon opening. I grind straight from frozen with a shorter output of 18/27g. I do drop the temperate to 197F for this due to its robusta content.