Black and White Roasters

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
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#1: Post by lancealot »

There has been a good amount of talk about Black and White Roasters on the "What is wow'ing you?" mega-thread so I thought I would give them a try. Big thanks to IMAWriter for bringing this to everyone's attention over on that thread.

I am pretty excited about this stuff 1) Because the people over on the mega-thread have some good stuff to say and, 2) After learning about Black and White Roasters, it is hard not to see the potential in this coffee. The owners, Lem Butler and Kyle Ramage are US Barista Champs and WBC finalists, 2016 and 2017 respectively. They are very well regarded in the specialty coffee world. Lem starred in one of Dan's Newbie videos! :shock:

I ordered 2lbs of The Classic and 12oz of The Natural. Priority Shipping was free with a code after I spent $35 so I went for that. The code was (is) displayed as a banner on the website. The site says they roast and ship on Tuesdays and Fridays. I ordered on Monday (Labor Day) it shipped Tuesday and I had it by Thursday. They sell 12oz, 2lbs and 5lbs bags, that is nice.

I like it when roasters provide starting espresso extraction parameters for their coffees. I find when I am working with 12oz, it is helpful to have a recommendation for where to begin, then I let my knowledge, intuition and luck find the right spot for my tastes and equipment. These guys do not list a starting point on the site or on the bags so I sent them an email. Actually I sent them two emails cause I found 2 addresses. I received 2 replies too.
Paraphrasing the replies: 200 degrees, The Natural - 18.5g in and 38 - 46g out over 25-28 sec. The Classic - 18.5g in and 38g out over 26-27 sec. The other reply suggested a slightly higher dose @ 19g but with similar brew ratios and times.
This is a great starting point and I am happy to have it. Suffice it to say, we should all be dialing in our own shots to our equipment and taste.

This stuff is going to sit on my bench and rest for the next few days. In the meantime, please use this thread to talk about your experiences with their coffees. I would love to hear how you have got on with it. I will update with my experience, once I have some.


#2: Post by IMAWriter »

Chris, as you know, I was the original poster as to commenting on B&W.
I ordered 2 #s of Classic and 2 #s of original. I was under no assumption that these coffees were meant to be brewed as espresso...though many folks use their coffees dual purpose...drip/pour-over and espresso. being a lever-head, I feel levers make this happen well, especially with LIGHTER roasts. (which these are not). I drank these exclusively as Kalita, Behmor Brazen, and vac pot.
In loved the roast level..medium with a lean toward medium+ Absolutely no roast taste, just pure varietal flavors.

I do believe the Natural would yield a nice fruity (berry) espresso...I just loved it so much as drip, I didn't think of taking some over to my friend, who has an Alex Duetto II.
Classic has that awesome (to me) molasses, vanilla sort of thing, and a hard for me to describe sweet acidity. I described it as maybe the sweetest coffee I've had in several years. Truly a non black coffee drinkers opportunity to drink it black, as my wife can attest.

So, descriptors would be copious. Brew parameters for drip, espresso would have to be published on the web site. I cannot remember if, unlike his former employer Counter Culture, he has a specific espresso blend or SO? If not, I think brew temperature for drip, and espresso temp and dose might be helpful to some folks, I suppose. It is' one reason I always purchase at least 2#s. Shouldn't take more than 3 shots to get the grind and temperature close...and another couple to nail it. They're are a new company, so maybe down the road they will suggest some parameters. I just always start at 200f and work from there.
LMWDP #187


#3: Post by Espresso_Junky »

Even though they're somewhat local to me I haven't tried any of their offerings. I will say having met Lem years ago he is serious about all things coffee. Likely the best thing to come from Counter Culture truth be told.


#4: Post by 5280grindz »

I've got some of The Original on order. Sounds intriguing. Need to make it through some Moonshot before I can get into it.

Recommended extraction parameters from B&W are 18.5g in / 37 out / 27 secs. They said some folks in the shop take it to 46g or a 1:2.5 ratio, same extraction time.


#5: Post by Iowa_Boy » replying to 5280grindz »

I was stopping at around 40-42 grams out for 18 grams in. Extraction time was around 45 seconds.


#6: Post by Jebb846 »

Thanks for starting this thread. Ordered 12 oz of the natural, classic and original after reading the what's wowing thread. Really liked all 3 but but decided to get a 2# of the original. Did they pass on a recipe for the original?


#7: Post by Iowa_Boy »

I have just finished a bag of the Gesha Village Natural, which is back in stock. My first shot was as an Americano, and the up front floral flavors are excellent. Like their other coffees, the sweetness is easy to detect. I have had less success with it as an espresso, as the fruit flavors predominate. But as an Americano, if you like floral, fruit, and sweet, this is your coffee.


#8: Post by 3cordcreations » replying to Iowa_Boy »

Very nice.
What size Americano are you making? Shot size and water?
Thanks. I don't make these often.
A three cord strand is not easily broken...


#9: Post by Iowa_Boy » replying to 3cordcreations »

18 Grams of the Gesha Village natural pulled to 40 gram shot. Then add hot water to final weight of 150 grams. Temp 201.
I found, for me, that if I added more water I began to lose some of the floral aspects.

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lancealot (original poster)

#10: Post by lancealot (original poster) »

I have almost burned through the 12oz bag of The Natural. There are about 2 more shots left in the hopper and I have enough for a Bonivita carafe in the morning. I will definitely buy this again. I will not buy 12oz though, 5lbs for me!
I have had this straight, as lattes and as americanos. I have pulled it at 200 degrees and in a range of ways. 18.5g in : 36-41g out, in 25 - 35 seconds. I have not had a bad shot at all. But I haven't been able to figure out where it think it is at it's best. I need more than 12oz of this to really find where it is most pleasing to me. It has all been great.

I have only had experience with 3 natural Ethiopians. Klatch Golden Bean (blend), S&W Craft Roasting Ethiopia Kebede Wako Gedeb (SO) and B&W's The Natural (A blend I think). I really liked the Klatch. Really nice berry aroma and flavor with a distinct chocolate flavor. I went through 15lbs of it. I really did not like the S&W. Berry aromas, mild berry flavor up front, citrus acid (sour) finish no matter what I did and I tried a BUNCH of stuff, not a ton of other flavors in between. I only bought 12oz of B&W's The Natural because I had such a bad experience with the S&W. I struggled to get through a pound of it.

B&W The Natural had the berry nose and berry flavors up front that carried into kinda chocolate at some extractions but I found it easier to pick out caramel. Sweet - yes sweet with a clean finish. I have said before that coffee is not sweet and now here I am saying this is sweet. Juicy without being citric or sour. It is a clean acidity. With the Klatch, I found that under-extracting it would make the berry flavors more pronounced. With this, I find that under-extracting it makes it more juicy, without really bringing out more berry but without getting citric sour. Though, I think that if I went really fast (really under-extracted) it might get to citrus, but i never did. 18.5g in : 40g out in 25 seconds still yielded a drinkable shot. I find that a really good test of an espresso is a room temperature americano. This stuff makes a really nice room temperature americano - nuff said.