Black and White Roasters - Page 8

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
DaveB

#71: Post by DaveB »

doctorold wrote:I am struggling to get the Classic dialed in to something that is pleasing. No success. Any suggestions. I'm all ears.
When I asked B&W (via Facebook) what parameters they use, they replied:

"we pull the Classic at 18.5g in with a 37g yield in roughly 25s at about 203°F to get the right balance of sweet dark chocolate with a full body"...
Von meinem iPhone gesendet

rockethead26

#72: Post by rockethead26 »

doctorold wrote:I am struggling to get the Classic dialed in to something that is pleasing. No success. Any suggestions. I'm all ears.
I cannot run at temps over 198 like the last poster because I live at altitude. I get great chocolaty flavor with Classic using the following parameters.

Temp 198°, 18g in, 42g out, 32-35 seconds. This is yummy stuff.

Urnex: 100% dedicated focus on coffee and tea cleaning
Sponsored by Urnex
IMAWriter
Supporter ♡

#73: Post by IMAWriter »

I can't wait till again have an espresso machine, so I can try B&W's coffees as espresso. As I mentioned bacl n page on, I loved their coffees as pour over.
Rob
LMWDP #187
www.robertjason.com

doctorold

#74: Post by doctorold »

I bumped the temperature and yield and got something pretty good. Definitely better but not "wowing" me. I'll keep tinkering.

DaveB

#75: Post by DaveB »

I'm finding I like The Classic better pulled slower and cooler than what I quoted above. Just pulled a shot 15 days off roast @199ºF; profiled at approx 1.5mL/sec, and let it ramp up to 8 bar before holding it there and letting the pressure go down slowly on its own as the puck eroded - until I had 29g in the cup; total shot time 52 sec. Much better IMO.

Von meinem iPhone gesendet

User avatar
lancealot (original poster)

#76: Post by lancealot (original poster) »

I have been back at the Natural for the past 2 days. This time I have been wanting something "more" out of this bean. Yesterday I turned to the flow profiling capabilities of my modified BDB. (Shout out to everyone in the BDB community here!)

I have been playing with a trailing pressure profile (mimicking a lever profile) with this and I am loving it. It really takes the edge off, gets rid of any bitter and lets the sweetness shine through. One day, I hope to own a Londinium. COVID dashed those dreams this year. But for now, I have a modded BDB to play with and that is really good.

DaveB

#77: Post by DaveB »

lancealot wrote:I have been back at the Natural for the past 2 days. This time I have been wanting something "more" out of this bean. Yesterday I turned to the flow profiling capabilities of my modified BDB. (Shout out to everyone in the BDB community here!)

I have been playing with a trailing pressure profile (mimicking a lever profile) with this and I am loving it. It really takes the edge off, gets rid of any bitter and lets the sweetness shine through.
I'm curious: are you holding the pressure short of the OPV bypass and letting the pressure trail off on its own, or are you dialing it down by hand? Also, please share the parameters you used as I might be trying The Natural soon.
Von meinem iPhone gesendet

Baratza: skilled in the art of grinding
Sponsored by Baratza
User avatar
lancealot (original poster)

#78: Post by lancealot (original poster) »

are you holding the pressure short of the OPV bypass and letting the pressure trail off on its own
Hey DaveB, I am having a hard time understanding what you mean by this.

I guess I may have caused confusion because I interchanged the words pressure and flow. I have done the BDB flow mod where the line from the boiler to the group head is routed through the hot water valve. This allows you to restrict the flow of water to the puck, as a result, the pressure is reduced too but I think the primary effect is a reduction in flow, shoulda said that.

I'll check back in with more specific parameters, but in general I am doing this. Start the pump with the valve all the way open and the water at full flow, then, as the puck erodes, and the shot flow speeds up, I start to restrict the flow by closing the needle valve. My aim is a consistent or even slightly declining flow of espresso from the bottom of the portafilter as the shot progresses. I gauge this by watching the stream of espresso. In general the timing goes like this: start the pump, no preinfusion, the gauge takes about 8 seconds to reach 8.5 bar and the flow starts somewhere along the way to 8.5 bar. 15-20 grams ii to the shot, the flow is picking up so I restrict it with the valve, at this point, the pressure is usually reading 5 bar on the gauge. Usually around the 30 gram mark, I restrict it further so that the end of the shot flows kinda like the beginning, at this point I am usually seeing 3 -5 bar on the gauge.

Many of the flow profiling folks on here are also altering the flow at the front end of the extraction too. I am not doing this yet, only because I am trying to be chill about this and learn the effect of one thing at a time. I have found that slowing down the flow at the tail end of the extraction reduces the bitterness and softens many kinds of coffee. I have the impression from what I have read, that controlling the flow on the front end can reduce the acidity of lighter roasts. I don't buy light roasts and acidity hasn't really been an issue for me so I haven't played around with flow control on the front end of the extraction.

DaveB

#79: Post by DaveB »

lancealot wrote:Hey DaveB, I am having a hard time understanding what you mean by this.
[Note: I think this discussion on flow fully warrants its own separate thread, but in the meantime I want to reply. Since this thread is about B&W coffee, I'l say that for their Rodrigo Pelaez, the recommenced parameters of 19g in/43g out in 25 sec flows radically faster than anything I've pulled to date. But I went with it and it is quite enjoyable. However I prefer The Classic pulled much slower than their recommendation, as I mentioned above]

Chris, My bad - I assumed you were doing a long slow preinfusion with a greatly reduced flow, and then either letting the pressure build up naturally or helping it along with the knob. Jake G of Team HB (who conceived and outlined the ridiculously easy BDB flow-control mod) has posted about the benefit of limiting the flow to a point before the OPV bypass. I have been experimenting with this and other FC methods. Here are a few examples:

1. Start with a greatly reduced flow, such as of 1.5mL/sec. Allow pressure to build up to its peak naturally. Either let the shot finish or reduce flow toward the end a la Slayer.

2. Same initial flow as above, but stopping it before the OPV bypass, say 8 bar. This not only slows the extraction, but makes it more responsive when you reduce the flow a la Slayer.

3. Again same flow as above, but as the pressure gets to 3 bar, hold it there for varying amounts of time before either letting the pressure go up naturally of helping it along - again limiting it to approx. 8 bar for reasons stated above.

4. Pull a shot with full flow, then trail off to simulate a lever profile.

5., Etc, etc, ad infinitum. :D

Edit: just pulled another shot of The Classic, this time 18g ground slightly coarser; low flow; 1st drops around 20 sec; natural ramp to 8 bar and a with a slight twist of the knob I stopped it there; pressure slowly declined on its own for a few seconds before I pushed it down to 3 bar for last 5 seconds - total time 48 seconds (31g). This might have been the best shot yet - even 16 days off roast!
Von meinem iPhone gesendet

nameisjoey

#80: Post by nameisjoey »

lancealot wrote:edited*

I had written here that I purchased a bag the Natural after not having had it for about 3 months and it was not what I remember. Well, memory is fallible and the perception of taste is easily skewed or "developed" over time and conditioning through exposure to other inputs. One or all of these thigns happened to me. After using this coffee for the past 2 days, I am happy with the Natural and I do think the bag I have is consistent with the bags I have bought in the past.

I DO wish it had more chocolaty tones. I want for a Brazil and Ethiopia blend that is chocolate and fruit.
Try this: https://www.elcaminocoffeeroasters.com/ ... -firmament it's really good! Should be exactly what you're looking for.