Black and White Roasters - Page 30

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
chanty 77

#291: Post by chanty 77 »

I really enjoyed the Classic roast, it had some citrus going on, but not overly citrus. I have been using the Traditional roast for maybe about a week now, and it is not bad, but can't seem to get the more bitter out of it--if I play around with brew temp, grind, grams--it gets more bland. Is there another B&W roast you would recommend that would be similar to the Classic, yet different in ways? Thanks.

nameisjoey

#292: Post by nameisjoey » replying to chanty 77 »

I think you would benefit from pulling the traditional much shorter. 1:1-1.5. I know you don't weigh your output but here it might be wise to try at least. I found ristretto to be not bitter at all.

As far as similar but different than classic - try the natural!

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chanty 77

#293: Post by chanty 77 » replying to nameisjoey »



I know this sounds probably dumb, but I don't get the ratios at all. Could you explain the 1:1-1:5? Thanks. B&W said to try their blue or green bags. I don't see any green bags & the blue sound very much vibrant citrus which is what I'm not crazy about. Find citrus very interesting, but not overly. Thanks

tennisman03110

#294: Post by tennisman03110 »

chanty 77 wrote:
I know this sounds probably dumb, but I don't get the ratios at all. Could you explain the 1:1-1:5? Thanks. B&W said to try their blue or green bags. I don't see any green bags & the blue sound very much vibrant citrus which is what I'm not crazy about. Find citrus very interesting, but not overly. Thanks
1:1 is an equal amount of coffee in the portafilter (i.e. 18 grams) to the output weight of espresso in the cup.

For darker roasts, you often pull shorter shots (i.e. 1:1.5) to not over-extract. Lighter roasts, maybe 1:3. And that's a generalization.

chanty 77

#295: Post by chanty 77 » replying to tennisman03110 »

So you are saying--in my case, with the Traditional--I do 16.9-17g of beans---I would only have an output weight of say, 17g? Meaning, (guessing here), I might end up only pulling a 20 second shot or less? I don't know how that small amount would hold up in my cappuccino only drinks, despite only using about 5 oz. of steamed milk. Since I can only drink (without issues) two doubles in one cappa per day---I need to really taste the coffee flavor punching through the milk.
When I did weigh (the few times I weighed output)--it was around 28-32g output to about 17g of beans.

Thanks.

chanty 77

#296: Post by chanty 77 »

nameisjoey wrote:I think you would benefit from pulling the traditional much shorter. 1:1-1.5. I know you don't weigh your output but here it might be wise to try at least. I found ristretto to be not bitter at all.

As far as similar but different than classic - try the natural!
Regarding the Natural, do you agree with this statement about the natural "The Natural is not quite up to snuff as the prior one. This one appears to hail solely from Ethiopia, not the Columbia blend I had gotten a month ago. The berry notes are not hitting anywhere near as hard and it's lacking considerable complexity."

tennisman03110

#297: Post by tennisman03110 » replying to chanty 77 »

That statement was over a year ago....many iterations and seasons past. Why don't you just try The Natural? It's one of my favorites, and more affordable than the single origins.

As far as pulling short shots, I don't do it too often. You can explore other topics on this site if you are interested.

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Peppersass
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#298: Post by Peppersass »

chanty 77 wrote:So you are saying--in my case, with the Traditional--I do 16.9-17g of beans---I would only have an output weight of say, 17g? Meaning, (guessing here), I might end up only pulling a 20 second shot or less? I don't know how that small amount would hold up in my cappuccino only drinks, despite only using about 5 oz. of steamed milk. Since I can only drink (without issues) two doubles in one cappa per day---I need to really taste the coffee flavor punching through the milk.
When I did weigh (the few times I weighed output)--it was around 28-32g output to about 17g of beans.

Thanks.
A 1:1.5 brew ratio would give you 25.5g of beverage in the cup with a 17g dose. It might work at 20 seconds, but more likely you would want to grind finer to give the water more contact time -- say 25-35 seconds for the shot.

A Ristretto is more concentrated, so usually one will punch through milk just fine. In fact, back when the trend was toward darker roasts, many cafes pulled Ristretto for their milk drinks to minimize bitterness from over-extraction.

I recommend that you weigh all your shots. It's an essential part of dialing in and ensuring consistency.
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chanty 77

#299: Post by chanty 77 » replying to Peppersass »

A 1:1.5 brew ratio would give you 25.5g of beverage in the cup with a 17g dose. It might work at 20 seconds, but more likely you would want to grind finer to give the water more contact time -- say 25-35 seconds for the shot.

Then that would be close to when I weighed my output with 17g (28-32g) at 25-30 sec. I will try the weighing the output again.

nameisjoey

#300: Post by nameisjoey »

chanty 77 wrote:"The Natural is not quite up to snuff as the prior one.
No I don't agree with that. A double or triple ristretto of the natural is quite good in a milk drink.

In regards to you wondering if shorter shots are good in milk - I actually prefer ristretto's in milk. Usually I do 21g in and 21-30g out for a milk drink. I find it punches through and has a better texture. Where as a longer shot feels and tastes more watered down.

So my recommendation for the traditional/classic/natural would be to grind finer and pull 1:1-1.5 in 25-30 seconds. If needed you can also increase your brew temp to get a more balanced shorter shot. This works great for medium dark roasts - I would not recommend for lighter roasts.

Definitely weigh your output, grind a little finer, pull a little shorter, and see if that increased your sweetness and decreases your bitters on the current blend you're drinking.