Black and White Roasters - Page 3

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
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lancealot

#21: Post by lancealot » Sep 13, 2019, 8:06 pm

Balthazar_B wrote:So just to confirm, your first lever shots on both coffees were without any preinfusion at all?
I don't understand this question. jasonmolinari profile say he has an Alex Duetto. That'e an E61 right?
Jason, where you at?

jasonmolinari

#22: Post by jasonmolinari » replying to lancealot » Sep 13, 2019, 8:29 pm

sorry guys. Missed the question. I have a duetto direct plumbed. I lift the lever to open the water channel and allow preinfusion at about 3 bar until the first drop drips into the cup. This usually takes about 15 seconds. Then i lift the lever to activate the pump, and run until about 38-40g. This usually takes another 20 or 25 seconds.

Using the preinfusion requires a much finer grind (about 5 "points" on my niche") to not have gushers.

jasonmolinari

#23: Post by jasonmolinari » Sep 13, 2019, 8:31 pm

Balthazar_B wrote:So just to confirm, your first lever shots on both coffees were without any preinfusion at all?
No lever here. Duetto II, e61. Preinfusion is achieved by having it direct plumbed.

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Balthazar_B

#24: Post by Balthazar_B » Sep 13, 2019, 8:31 pm

lancealot wrote:I don't understand this question. jasonmolinari profile say he has an Alex Duetto. That'e an E61 right?
Jason, where you at?
Right you are. For some reason I thought he had an Alex Leva... :oops:

So should have said "pump shot" rather than "lever shot".
- John

LMWDP # 577

Ejquin

#25: Post by Ejquin » Sep 13, 2019, 11:26 pm

3cordcreations wrote:Wow, sounds exactly like what I'm experiencing. Did you try different brew temps? I thought about a lower one. This is disappointing given the price and description of it. I don't think I will get another java.
I'm going to let it rest longer. It's at 8 days post roast now but as you said it's vey gassy.
I haven't tried different brew temps, no. Today was 11 days post roast and I'm having the same issues. I'll probably just give up on this one and move on to the next coffee I have to brew with.

jasonmolinari

#26: Post by jasonmolinari » Sep 14, 2019, 8:27 am

grover wrote:So is The Classic more of a Chocolate nutty blend? I am trying to decide between the Original or Classic.
I haven't tried the Original. The classic is definitely sweet caramel and chocolate, with some nuttiness...not much. I didn't get any Original because of the "bright citrus" in the descriptor.

Kran

#27: Post by Kran » Sep 14, 2019, 10:01 am

I've also just tried B&W for the first time with a bag each of Original, Natural and Classic. I was surprised that my favorite for pourover (Kalita so far but V60 will be next) and espresso has been the Classic. I'm only 4 days off roast so this might change.

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lancealot

#28: Post by lancealot » Sep 14, 2019, 5:32 pm

Kinda having a challenging time with The Classic. I don't really think it is a classic, maybe it should be called, The New Classic. User marlodmb mentioned Lusso GMC. I think of GMC, Nossa Teodoro's, Malabar Gold, Redbird, Linea Espresso as classic espressos. Deep tones, unmistakable chocolate, nuts or caramel, If you mess up the balance, it is easier to make it bitter and hard to make it acidic. What I like in A classic, is a balance where bitter and acid disappear and I get flavors that are chocolate, caramel, toffee or nuts, a medley of any of those is nice but I like to be able to pick out the flavors. I think I have heard it described as flavor separation.

For The Classic's main flavors, I get an indistinct medley, maybe chocolate, maybe caramel, maybe nuts, but I really can't say. None of the flavors stands out as dominant. This balance may be special or hard to achieve but due to the fact that nothing really stands out, I'm kinda left wanting something else.

As far as acidity and bitterness are concerned, at 200 degrees, the acidity is always present. Not in a bad way. I've pulled 18 gram doses for 34-40g out in 22-42 seconds - gushing fast through to drippin slow. There was acidity present in all of them, I liked it best at longer duration pulls. At this temp it is hard to make it bitter. At 42 seconds it was hinting at bitter. Interestingly, at 201 degrees, a bitterness is introduced. The acidity is still there but less pronounced.

With The Classic, I can achieve an espresso that is smooth and has all the flavors present at the same time. I can have a shot with some brightness, a melange of midtone flavors. If I want it, which I don't, I can introduce bitterness in the end. But I can't balance the bitter and acid so that they both disappear. I can make it juicy without making it lemony or O.J. acidic.
Maybe a perfect espresso for a lot of people, but not for me.

Kran

#29: Post by Kran » Sep 14, 2019, 7:15 pm

My taste preferences aren't as nuanced as yours but I agree with the overall assessment. The Classic is definitely not the same taste profile as the recent Redbird or Malabar Gold i've had. I just had The Classic as a 19g in 40g out in 30s shot @roughly 199 degrees on the tail end of the shot. I would say, for me, the taste was citrus front with a lightly sweet end. I do get the deeper tones you describe but mostly as a lingering aftertaste.

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lancealot

#30: Post by lancealot » Sep 14, 2019, 7:38 pm

Kran wrote: I do get the deeper tones you describe but mostly as a lingering aftertaste.
^^^YES^^^
At a lower temperature, even if I pull it long, I cannot get that acidity outta there.
If I crank up the heat, even one degree, the bitter ruins that aftertaste.
I think it is time for me to try the long, low preinfusion and a very fine grind at the lower temperature.