Black and White Classic help

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
goalerjones

#1: Post by goalerjones »

Problem, fast extraction, watery and thin taste.

I'm using 2-CUP 58 mm 14-18 g 70x24.5 mm basket, stock for the Quickmill Vetrano and Compak E5 grinder with Orphan Espresso single dosing collar, and when previously using Doma Carmelas, had been doing 18gms, 200f brew temp, first coffee into cup 7-8 seconds, final 30gm extraction finished at 22-24 seconds. Espresso had smooth texture, good crema, heavier consistency, good flavor in cup.

BW Classic, 18gms even at finest grind, just before burrs touching, gushes out at 6 seconds and reaches 30gms around 16 seconds. Upped the dose to 19gms, almost same exact result. Coffee is very watery, thin crema, and lacks depth to taste.

Any suggestions?

Milligan

#2: Post by Milligan »

Is it very fresh? I've had freshly roasted coffees run way too fast. The CO2 rushes out. I'd let it rest a bit and try again. Typically it is best to let coffee intended for espresso sit for 1-2weeks post roast to get a steady shot. Your mileage may vary.

chanty 77

#3: Post by chanty 77 »

I always had issues with "too fresh" beans prior to 6 days. I never open a bag of beans anymore until anywhere between 6-8 days post roast. If memory serves me correctly, anything prior to 5 days--I got major watery gushers. I think you have to let the beans properly degas before opening the bag (if you are not). My beans never get really old, but even the ones I've had (before freezing) were maybe 27-28 days post roasting and ran normally--maybe losing a tad in flavor.

I've gotten B&W Classic regularly in the past with no issues.

goalerjones (original poster)

#4: Post by goalerjones (original poster) »

Thanks everyone, they're fresh, and frozen, so they'll probably take time to age. I'm used to a coffee subscription so I was always using the bag before, and waiting on the newest delivery, but switched when Doma increased their per bag charges. So BW was just delivered.

The coffee per their help emails begins flowing around 5 seconds when making espresso. The taste is better today, but still flowing fast.

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HB
Admin

#5: Post by HB »

Another option besides waiting is grinding the coffee and letting it sit for awhile. See Degassing whole bean coffees and other discussions for more details.
Dan Kehn

chanty 77

#6: Post by chanty 77 »

goalerjones wrote:Thanks everyone, they're fresh, and frozen, so they'll probably take time to age. I'm used to a coffee subscription so I was always using the bag before, and waiting on the newest delivery, but switched when Doma increased their per bag charges. So BW was just delivered.

The coffee per their help emails begins flowing around 5 seconds when making espresso. The taste is better today, but still flowing fast.
Can you tell us how many days post roast the B&W Classic is? Look on the bag (maybe bottom of bag) for date.

goalerjones (original poster)

#7: Post by goalerjones (original poster) replying to chanty 77 »

I'll check when I get home, they were delivered on 11/19/22. They went into the freezer right away and have remained there since arriving.

chanty 77

#8: Post by chanty 77 replying to goalerjones »

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong since I'm so new at the freezing game. Only been freezing beans for the last several months in my 30-year or more espresso journey. I put my beans in the freezer at 6-7 days post roast (The roast date is 11-21, so 6 days AFTER the roast date--11-27), they went in the freezer. When I thaw them, say that same day I take them out of the freezer--it is 6 days post roast I'm using them. Thus, my thoughts are if you stick them in the freezer only say 3-4 days past the roast date, that is basically what you will be using when you grind them--3-4 days past the roast date beans.

In my personal experience, if I use beans that are less than 5-6 days post roast, I have nothing but gushers. Could be I have better equipment than I used to, but waiting to open a bag til at least 6 days post roast, never had a gusher (but that's me)

berfles

#9: Post by berfles »

Does this apply in general as well? I also recently got The Classic and used it right away in the French Press and thought it was pretty weak... maybe they're too fresh?

jpender

#10: Post by jpender »

chanty 77 wrote:...I put my beans in the freezer at 6-7 days post roast...
...When I thaw them, say that same day I take them out of the freezer--it is 6 days post roast I'm using them.
Aging still happens in the freezer. Quantifying the rate and nature of that aging isn't completely straightforward but one HB member put together a calculator to estimate it. It calculates "16 days @ -20°C is approximately 1 day @ 20°C". So roughly 1 day of aging every couple of weeks in the freezer, assuming a freezer at -20°C/-4°F and well sealed bags. Well, at least that's what he says.

Frozen Coffee Storage Calculator

In my own experience I've had the occasion coffee lose quality in the freezer after some time had elapsed. And I've also had coffee that seemed to improve over time in the freezer. It's really hard to separate the subjective part of this though.

chanty 77 wrote:In my personal experience, if I use beans that are less than 5-6 days post roast, I have nothing but gushers.
I find it depends on the coffee. I recently put a bag in the freezer 2 days post roast and started pulling shots right away. It's been great.