Anyone try Blue Bottle Coffee? - Page 3
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On topic: Yes, I've tried BB espresso a few times and thought that it tasted off each time.
Slightly less on topic: If one wants to criticize BB's coffee, then criticize BB's coffee. Criticizing by association--"it's preground therefore it can't be good"--isn't very persuasive. In matters of taste, taste is all that matters. There's the Rao experience alluded to above, and I myself have had amazing filter coffee from beans ground days in advance.
Slightly less on topic: If one wants to criticize BB's coffee, then criticize BB's coffee. Criticizing by association--"it's preground therefore it can't be good"--isn't very persuasive. In matters of taste, taste is all that matters. There's the Rao experience alluded to above, and I myself have had amazing filter coffee from beans ground days in advance.
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William, just to make it clear, back on Page One of this discussion, I wrote:
I don't criticize/dismiss Blue Bottle because the beans are pre-ground at the Farmer's Market. I criticize/dismiss them because I'm not a fan,but I also recognize some people are.
What I find interesting about Rao's experiment is that the human sense of taste can only distinguish between five things; the human olfactory tract, more than 10,000. Intuitively, I would think the sense of smell more important . . . I'll have to try the experiment myself.
I'm not the biggest fan because I'm not crazy about their beans. Do I drink their espresso? From time-to-time, yes; when there is no closer/more convenient alternative. Sometimes, I'll stop at their Oakland café after court, on my way to the office. Do I drink their drip coffee at the Saturday Farmer's Market in Berkeley? If it's cold out, and I want something hot to drink.zin1953 wrote:Kay, Blue Bottle is beloved by some, but I'm not the biggest fan. It's certainly not bad by any means, and I will buy their beans occasionally (when I run out and haven't timed my next shipment right), but IMHO there are better roasters in the SF Bay area.
I don't criticize/dismiss Blue Bottle because the beans are pre-ground at the Farmer's Market. I criticize/dismiss them because I'm not a fan,but I also recognize some people are.
What I find interesting about Rao's experiment is that the human sense of taste can only distinguish between five things; the human olfactory tract, more than 10,000. Intuitively, I would think the sense of smell more important . . . I'll have to try the experiment myself.
A morning without coffee is sleep. -- Anon.
- SpromoSapiens
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donnedonne -- i think the dismissive attitude towards preground comes from a long ingrained belief in a negative deterioration that sets in almost immediately upon grinding, which has apparently only recently been challenged and in some cases disproven. More research is required, but I don't think the notion should be too harshly reprimanded, as to suspend it is a relatively newly broken ground. Frankly when I enter a new espresso bar, take my time inspecting and approaching, order a drink, watch them prepare it, and note that for my entire visit I hadn't seen or heard the grinder run even once, I'm disappointed before I even receive the drink by wondering just how long that coffee had been languishing in that doser, because I've always felt that espresso, to whatever extent possible, particularly in a cafe setting, should be ground to order. Were I more of a pourover fan, I might have felt the same way about that -- although I now know not to rush to judgment.
That said, when it comes to BB Roman espresso, grind notwithstanding, I stand by my initial report: It was rich but roasty, in a way that strikes me as old-fashioned. Hence the name, I suppose. In the espresso spectrum of either SF or NY, it's not particularly adventurous. But still substantially better than one's likely to find at a less-than-high-end cafe.
That said, when it comes to BB Roman espresso, grind notwithstanding, I stand by my initial report: It was rich but roasty, in a way that strikes me as old-fashioned. Hence the name, I suppose. In the espresso spectrum of either SF or NY, it's not particularly adventurous. But still substantially better than one's likely to find at a less-than-high-end cafe.
- the_trystero
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About 8 years ago a friend who planted the seed for my current love of specialty coffee said "green beans can be stored for months and months, roasted beans 2 or so weeks, but once you grind it it's stale within 15 minutes". I'm glad to see this pre-ground discussion pop up because I bought a Brazen specifically for it's timer. My partner sometimes leaves for work 6 hours before I do so I rarely rise in time to make her coffee. She isn't concerned about the grinds sitting for 6 hours overnight but I sure was. Some day I will do some blind tasting but I'm pretty swamped right now.SpromoSapiens wrote:donnedonne -- i think the dismissive attitude towards preground comes from a long ingrained belief in a negative deterioration that sets in almost immediately upon grinding,
Yep, a friend who works at Blue Bottle dropped off some Roman, Hayes Valley, and 17 Ft Ceiling a couple of weeks ago. 4 years ago Blue Bottle is who finally watered that seed mentioned above so I definitely have a soft spot in my heart for them. But, I only managed to pull a couple of shots of each of them before discarding. None of them were as interesting as the various beans of my own that I would throw together for espresso. My tastes have definitely changed since that amazing cappuccino from the cart at the ferry building farmer's market.SpromoSapiens wrote:That said, when it comes to BB Roman espresso, grind notwithstanding, I stand by my initial report: It was rich but roasty, in a way that strikes me as old-fashioned.
"A screaming comes across the sky..." - Thomas Pynchon
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I believe the reference is tothe_trystero wrote:About 8 years ago a friend who planted the seed for my current love of specialty coffee said "green beans can be stored for months and months, roasted beans 2 or so weeks, but once you grind it it's stale within 15 minutes".
Babbie's Rule* of Fifteens:
-- Green (unroasted) coffee beans should be roasted within 15 months, or they go stale.
-- Roasted coffee beans should be ground within 15 days, or they go stale.
-- Ground coffee should be used within 15 minutes, or it goes stale.
Cheers,
Jason
* OK, so there are very few hard-and-fast "rules" -- more like "rules-of-thumb."
A morning without coffee is sleep. -- Anon.
- drgary
- Team HB
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Over the last few days I've found myself wondering whether pre-ground coffee is always worse and this evening found this new and old discussion. For anyone interested I've just started a new thread on the topic here:
Questioning The Rule of Fifteens and Pre-Ground Coffee
Questioning The Rule of Fifteens and Pre-Ground Coffee
Gary
LMWDP#308
What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!
LMWDP#308
What I WOULD do for a good cup of coffee!
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I got the Blue Bottle Craft of Coffee book over the holidays as a present. I knew that James Freeman had said in the past that coffee needs to be ground right before extracting for espresso, and drip, but I was not so inclined to find it. Needless to say I did come across it in the book where he states, "More coarsely ground coffee isn't as fragile, but there is a substantial difference after an hour or even twenty minutes" (pg 74). So why may I ask would he only offer preground coffee for some farmer market stalls?
- TheSunInsideYou
- Posts: 253
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Blue Bottle has some pretty awesome offerings. They care about the romance of coffee more than almost any other coffee company. It could be argued that this is merely a ploy, but the Blue Bottle that I go to in Chelsea in NYC is filled with employees who genuinely care about presenting and preparing their coffee to the best of their ability. I just had their Geisha offering brewed on the Siphon bar, the Yirgacheffe Gelana Abaya Natural as espresso, and shots of the Retrofit espresso as well. The staff was knowledgeable and professional, as well as quite competent in their positions.
Stop by if you're in the area; it's worth the trip.
-Dave-
Stop by if you're in the area; it's worth the trip.
-Dave-
Caffeine is proof that God loves us.
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I don't argue that they have some good offerings, not all to my liking, nor that there staff for the most part is good.
What I take offense with is actual stalls that Blue Bottle runs and operates sells coffee that by their own admission is sub-par. Especially when I find the coffee disgusting.
What I take offense with is actual stalls that Blue Bottle runs and operates sells coffee that by their own admission is sub-par. Especially when I find the coffee disgusting.
- berkinet
- Posts: 68
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In my experience, the coffee beans are good to very good. The prepared offer doesn't make the mark. And, finally, the staff are competent and pretentious. All in all, not worth the effort for me.