Another Bloody Under Developed Ethiopian

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.
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cafeIKE
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#1: Post by cafeIKE »

Commiserating with a 2nd generation professional roaster today, I mentioned subscription services I'd quit because of ABUDE:

Another Bloody Under Developed Ethiopian :evil:

His take:
"3rd wave (lightly roasted single origin) is simply marketing and economics and the customers love all that acid for some reason even though you can't possibly choke down more than a cup. It's really simple to toss a bag in a roaster and undercook it. Less moisture loss too so it's cheaper and easier to make."

Check!

culturesub

#2: Post by culturesub »

This is a horrible take and makes no sense. Customers like all that acid because they like the way it tastes. Its FAR easier to roast for medium or dark roasts, and there really is no argument otherwise.

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cafeIKE (original poster)
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#3: Post by cafeIKE (original poster) »

Are you a roaster?

Have you ever roasted?

Please support the assertion that unbalanced, non-maillard sour is harder?

baldheadracing
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#4: Post by baldheadracing »

I've never found one roast level easier or harder than another - except roasting to third crack :lol:. A roasting machine might favour one level or another, or a particular green one level or another, but I find getting the most out of a green is challenging no matter what the target roast level.

With a lighter roast, under-development, to me, seems easier to taste than at darker roast levels. However, I think that roast level and development are not the same thing - I'm defining development in terms of within-bean variation in roast level, e.g., https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/let- ... -roasting/

OldmatefromOZ

#5: Post by OldmatefromOZ »

Well developed is well developed and ones colour preference has little to do with it.

Roasting into 2nd crack and beyond can help mask poor earlier development but if the earlier stages are way off then it will literally stink.

A lot of the problems in general can come down to poor green quality that were never ripe in the first place and or processing issues which are greatly amplified in lighter roasts. Its just like cooking with any other under ripe raw ingredients it usually does not end well.

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another_jim
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#6: Post by another_jim »

baldheadracing wrote:I've never found one roast level easier or harder than another - except roasting to third crack :lol:. A roasting machine might favour one level or another, or a particular green one level or another, but I find getting the most out of a green is challenging no matter what the target roast level.

With a lighter roast, under-development, to me, seems easier to taste than at darker roast levels. However, I think that roast level and development are not the same thing - I'm defining development in terms of within-bean variation in roast level, e.g., https://www.baristahustle.com/blog/let- ... -roasting/
I personally think this repeats professional handwaving, like some Chaine de Rotisseurs person claiming it takes 30 years experience to grill a steak properly. Here are some facts.

Put green coffee in a pan, toss it over a fire for three, four minutes until just before the first crack, and you have Beduin and Ethiopian style coffee which tastes like a slight roasty tea, without much acidity. Roast a coffee with reasonable care for 10 minutes or more, at least until the first crack is winding down, and you'll have a nicely balanced conventional cup of coffee, ranging from light to dark roast. Between these two ranges, during most of the first crack, while the coffee is giving off acidic and grassy vapors, the coffee will be undrinkable (there are also stench patches just before and later in the second crack that need to be avoided).

Roasters who don't know how to use a tryer can call themselves anything they please; but they aren't roasting good coffee.
Jim Schulman

mbbrew

#7: Post by mbbrew »

I drink almost exclusively light and medium light coffees, the largest share of which are Ethiopian and I don't think I have ever tasted what you have described.

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#8: Post by mbbrew »

Who are some of the roasters who are consistently underveloping their coffee? Who are some that you have found that consistently have properly develop light roasts? Maybe I am just getting lucky with who I buy my coffee from. I can now think of one bag, surprisingly roasted for espresso that was noticeably underveloped, but it was an anomaly from that roaster.

ojt

#9: Post by ojt »

I also took this as anti light roast.. rant? Then thought it must just be me defending what I like. Anyway at least I now have a new acronym to use for these cases :)

I know nothing about roasting but I think I would agree on the sentiment that it's not just light (under developed) vs dark (over developed), based just on what I've tasted.

Just recently had a bag of Ethiopian DP that to me tasted definitely under developed. I did some research (Google) based on the taste notes I got and then contacted the roaster, who is known for roasting light. They actually agreed with me and offered a compensation, to my surprise but at least I can be confident that it's not just me :) I did present my claims / doubts with a clear disclaimer that I'm a habitual light roast drinker who isn't put off by acidity.

EDIT: Forgot to say they thought it might also not be a roast issue but something in the processing before that. As was also suggested in comments above

On occasion I've also had "light" roast that had a roasty aroma. And bitter taste. Perhaps it was less light than it should've been. Or just badly roasted.

Actually the whole light vs dark, or maybe light vs medium, is a little bit confusing in my opinion. Wish there was something more tangible.
Osku

shotwell

#10: Post by shotwell »

I think there's a lot of daylight between literal 'underdevelopment' and 'less developed than I prefer.' Same with excess development and uneven development. Finding stuff that works for you and your palette is hard since limited information is provided, but one person's underdeveloped may be just what I'm looking for.

I typed up a bunch more about roast and green defects and the state of the discourse surrounding them currently but decided to delete. Instead I'll say this; I don't think an appeal to authority means anything in a discussion like this. This roasters opinion about 'underdeveloped' coffee is literally only applicable to people that share similar taste. I like what I like and I'll keep looking for roasters that do that, as will the consumers that you and they think are drinking underdeveloped, unbalanced coffee.