another_jim wrote:I personally think this repeats professional handwaving, like some Chaine de Rotisseurs person claiming it takes 30 years experience to grill a steak properly. Here are some facts.

Put green coffee in a pan, toss it over a fire for three, four minutes until just before the first crack, and you have Beduin and Ethiopian style coffee which tastes like a slight roasty tea, without much acidity. Roast a coffee with reasonable care for 10 minutes or more, at least until the first crack is winding down, and you'll have a nicely balanced conventional cup of coffee, ranging from light to dark roast. Between these two ranges, during most of the first crack, while the coffee is giving off acidic and grassy vapors, the coffee will be undrinkable (there are also stench patches just before and later in the second crack that need to be avoided).

Roasters who don't know how to use a tryer can call themselves anything they please; but they aren't roasting good coffee.

<shrug> I come from a culture where the measure of a master chef is how well they can cook rice; which at the surface is a trivial task.

There are roasters that drop in the middle of first crack with good, drinkable results. If I point to, say, Tim Wendelboe, are his roasts the counter-example that proves you wrong, or the exception that proves your rule

I once had a roaster go off on a rant about light roast when i asked for one, about how it was all marketing. He was actually a member here. Wonder if it's the same person. I got a bag from him and it was really good, but i probably won't visit again. Unbelievably pretentious and probably coming from a place of not being skilled enough for a proper light roast, so they just sh** all over it instead. Not sure how he didn't realize his arrogance. It was my first time in the shop and within like 2 minutes.

This thought process is odd. I can understand how more acidic coffees are not for everyone. But I also wonder if people talking like this simply don't know how to brew light, or have never had a good roaster. I often drink very light African coffees, and one that's done properly shouldn't be "sour" as has been described. Get a high enough extraction and i hardly consider many of these to even be acidic, there's just so much sweetness and balance to it. Can't remember the last time i got a light roast Ethiopia that i thought the acidity was unbalanced. But again, i only buy from quality roasters (which not everyone has access to).

Nowhere did I mention light or dark.
I've had some light medium ethiopians that were really really good with fruit and pleasant flavors.

Under Developed - no coffee aroma, acidy to the point I can't finish a cup, suck my cheeks in rather like an unripe apple, flat. Dropped when it stank.

cgibsong002 wrote:But again, i only buy from quality roasters (which not everyone has access to).

With the internet, everyone has access to high quality roasters. I resent the implication I buy crappy coffee. FYI, it was a subscription @ $25/ arriving a few days post roast.

Aren't you still struggling brewing coffee with a Niche? For 7 months!?!?!? Niche Zero after 7 months - struggling to get good results Perhaps it's the coffee?

cafeIKE wrote:Nowhere did I mention light or dark.
I've had some light medium ethiopians that were really really good with fruit and pleasant flavors.

Under Developed - no coffee aroma, acidy to the point I can't finish a cup, suck my cheeks in rather like an unripe apple, flat. Dropped when it stank.

With the internet, everyone has access to high quality roasters. I resent the implication I buy crappy coffee. FYI, it was a subscription @ $25/ arriving a few days post roast.

Aren't you still struggling brewing coffee with a Niche? For 7 months!?!?!? Niche Zero after 7 months - struggling to get good results Perhaps it's the coffee?

Can you name some of the roasters? Both good and bad examples.

cafeIKE wrote:Nowhere did I mention light or dark.

You literally mentioned it in your first post.

cafeIKE wrote: "3rd wave (lightly roasted single origin) is simply marketing and economics and the customers love all that acid for some reason even though you can't possibly choke down more than a cup. It's really simple to toss a bag in a roaster and undercook it. Less moisture loss too so it's cheaper and easier to make."

Check!

Literally everything is harder with light roasted coffee, roasting, brewing, growing high enough quality that it will taste good at light roasts. I'm not sure how its debatable. Insulting other peoples tastes buds as being influenced by marketing because they don't match up with yours is ridiculous.

cafeIKE wrote:Nowhere did I mention light or dark.
I've had some light medium ethiopians that were really really good with fruit and pleasant flavors.

Under Developed - no coffee aroma, acidy to the point I can't finish a cup, suck my cheeks in rather like an unripe apple, flat. Dropped when it stank.

With the internet, everyone has access to high quality roasters. I resent the implication I buy crappy coffee. FYI, it was a subscription @ $25/ arriving a few days post roast.

Aren't you still struggling brewing coffee with a Niche? For 7 months!?!?!? Niche Zero after 7 months - struggling to get good results Perhaps it's the coffee?

Not sure what this is all about. My issues with my Niche have no bearing on my ability to know what kind of coffee i like. I frequent roasters all over Portland who brew perfect coffee. I also have other brewing methods and another grinder, and i also am perfectly capable of cupping coffee when i suspect an issue with a roast.

You mentioned a subscription service, and that's exactly why i don't do those. There's a lot of roasters charging premium money and have no clue what they're doing. Maybe I'm just lucky I'm this city but i very rarely get a bad roast. I don't know why you're upset at the implication of buying crappy coffee, you admitted yourself you did. So have all of us. That's the thing that sucks about 3rd wave roasters. You don't know if they're charging a certain price just because they can, or because they deserve it.

You also brought up a good point about not necessarily discussing light roast. I think the discussion kinda went that way, due to your own post, but guess it doesn't need to be.

baldheadracing wrote:<shrug> I come from a culture where the measure of a master chef is how well they can cook rice; which at the surface is a trivial task.

There are roasters that drop in the middle of first crack with good, drinkable results. If I point to, say, Tim Wendelboe, are his roasts the counter-example that proves you wrong, or the exception that proves your rule

For me, Wendleboe's roasts are perfectly correct and clinical. It's a lot like getting an anatomical illustration when you're looking for a Renoir nude.

And for me, anything much more roasted then Tim is a lot like getting a well done cut of meat when I want it medium rare at most. To each their own.

another_jim wrote:For me, Wendleboe's roasts are perfectly correct and clinical. It's a lot like getting an anatomical illustration when you're looking for a Renoir nude.

I like Ansel Adams.