Am I doing it wrong...

#1: Post by **lmolter** » November 22nd, 2020, 6:06 pm

I don't know whether this post belongs here or in the Level group. It touches on grind and flow rate and lever-operated machines. Anyway, here goes...
I've been pulling shots on my lever machine for almost 3 years now. Since my wife and I drink only cappuccinos (1-to-6 coffee/milk ratio or maybe 2-to-6), it's a never-ending battle to get the cap to have a good coffee flavor. If I buy dark roast beans such as Peet's Major Dickason's and the like, I can get a good pull most of the time until after the beans peak. Then, I'm constantly adjusting grind and pre-infusion to get a tasty drink. Mind you, I'm using a double spout into two 6oz cups. To the espresso pull I add 5oz of milk. But... would I be better off using a larger cup placed under both spouts and adding a little more milk (but not double)? I have 8oz cups but I haven't used them yet. So for me, my "God shot" is a full-flavored cappuccino where I can actually taste the coffee. But not so strong that it can remove rust. Of course, my wife likes everything that comes out of the La Pavoni, but I've become an espresso snob, I guess. Am I making sense (not about the snobbery, but the pulls)?

#2: Post by **TomC** » November 22nd, 2020, 9:03 pm

Hi Larry!

You shouldn't need to much pre-infusion trickery on a developed roast like Peets MD. But yes, you can try maximizing your dose, and pulling in one cup, keeping it ristretto should help avoid the harsh bitters and distillates. This should still provide enough oomph to punch thru milk and be quite tasty.

#3: Post by **ojt** » November 23rd, 2020, 2:57 am

The yield on Pavoni is pretty low, I pull one cup at the time. If splitting the cup you're likely getting something like 14 to 15 grams of coffee per cup which may not be enough for a tasty cappa.

But other than the yield on Pavoni the temperature control is key to success. You'd be surprised how hot the brew water is. Our FB groups research shows that on a premill a good GH temperature to pull a darker roast is about 75 degrees, and on a millennium machine around 84/85. I personally think the Pavonis are better suited for medium to light roasts because of the temperature behavior.

#4: Post by **guijan12** » November 23rd, 2020, 3:09 am

I'm not sure if I understand it correctly.

You are using a La Pavoni to pull two espresso's at the same time, correct?
The LP is capable to pull a max of 35-40 ml (1.18-1.35 oz) without Fellini move.
That is a max of 20 ml espresso per cup.

I don't like real dark roasts, because they easily taste burned.
Only if I really tweak them (dry weight and ratio) the espresso becomes tasty
The milk you use may mask flavors and sweeten it up a bit.

I would start experimenting with the ratio (if your cappuccino's strength is good enough).

November 23rd, 2020, 8:57 am

Yes, I made the question complicated. What doesn't work for me is pulling two espressos at once - one cup under each spout. In this method, the caps are always a little weak. I tried a little less volume (15g instead of 16.5g) into one cup (both spouts into the same cup). Added 8oz milk and voila! Good flavor and more volume. Using this 'new' technique, I don't have to buy the dark roasts anymore. It opens up more possibilities. I feel like a doofus that I didn't think of this a long time ago.

#6: Post by **TomC** » November 23rd, 2020, 9:06 am

Good to know you're already sorted!

Classic, old-school Italian espresso recipes might suggest only 7g per single shot, then given 5oz of steamed milk. But our warped perspective on serving size often increases the milk mass, meanwhile forgetting the espresso mass.

On a properly set up Pavoni (Europiccola) you should be able to produce at least two excellent cappuccino or latte before it overheats.

November 23rd, 2020, 9:42 am

I have a millenium Professional. Never noticed it overheating. But, the temp strips stopped working a while ago. But the best fallout from this is removing the alliance on dark roasts, I think. There's much more flavor variations in the medium- to medium-dark beans. <head slap>.

#8: Post by **guijan12** » November 23rd, 2020, 10:19 am

lmolter wrote:.... I tried a little less volume (15g instead of 16.5g) into one cup (both spouts into the same cup). Added 8oz milk and voila! Good flavor and more volume. ....

That's what we call 'diminishing blindness'

Never too old too learn, right!?