3rd wave bad, North Italian good - Page 9

Discuss flavors, brew temperatures, blending, and cupping notes.

#81: Post by OldNuc »

happycat wrote:I enjoyed reading this thread. Thanks.

I agree with some of the points....
3. Regardless of how dark or light my home roasts are done or even if I mess up, I can blend them to be delicious since I abandoned the single origin fetish
I think you jut put your finger on the critical flaw in the 3rd wave fetish. As coffee is an agricultural crop it is near impossible to have any true year to year consistency and as a single origin true balance will likely be lacking. A vanishingly small number of crops will hit all of the points for good espresso when pulled as a SO.

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#82: Post by peacecup »

I don't get into these discussions often these days, but I'm interested in "good" "bad" in many contexts and espresso in general,so I couldn't resist.

I drink the same old Italian roasts year in and year out, and I still am often stunned by how exquisite they taste when pulled properly. I'm a person who simply doesn't crave much variety. When I occasionally venture forth for one of the Nordic roasts that abound in my neighborhood I usually am repelled but once in a while I like them. Perhaps that is because they are more difficult to roast and pull "right" ("good").

Most telling is a sign at one of the local cafes, from a Nordic roaster, that says something to the effect of "if you don't think the coffee tastes good it's not the coffee, it's because you have not developed a taste for it". The only reason I can think of for that sign is that many customers have commented that the coffee didn't taste "good". But then again McDonald's is also a popular eating place. Good?
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."


#83: Post by Laurentje »

I find many 'light' roasts that taste bad have an underdeveloped core; they're underdeveloped and taste like chlorogenic acid.

When roasted 'light' outside with good development & pulled right lots of them (third wave coffees) taste great. It's mostly about skill...

In the WBC most of the winning stuff are quite light roasts. I tasted a few along the way. They're awesome! Awesome!!!! But only if you hit the sweet spot.

Sweet spot with darker roasts is bigger. They have a bigger extraction spectrum where they taste good.

SO third wave lighter roast coffee has a smaller extraction spectrum where it tastes GREAT and when you're off the spectrum it tastes bad.

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#84: Post by another_jim »

That's a very accurate description. But my inner skeptic asks: does the narrow sweet spot of light roasts taste so great because it is better than the wide sweet spot of medium roasts, or because we so rarely hit it?
Jim Schulman


#85: Post by Laurentje »

My personal opinion as a former roaster & competitor is that it's actually better. However, this answer is too simple because the matter is really complex.

I think taste wise, darker roast tend to have some 'ashy' or 'roasty' flavours that are undesirable, especially in the aftertaste. Also, the outside of a coffee bean when roasted to dark can get quite bitter in the cup.

One can also argue that roasting medium-light is more true to provenance. The darker the roast, the more "generic coffee flavour" your coffee will have... mailliard, caramelisation is the bigger part of what's left at a certain point.

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#86: Post by peacecup »

I drink the same old Italian roasts year in and year out, and I still am often stunned by how exquisite they taste when pulled properly.
- actually this just happened again this morning - I got the am cappa "just so" and it tasted heavenly. Inspiring yet a second post...

Rarity certainly plays a role in what we deem as good. Collectors of most things often value the rarest of those things most highly.

Then it gets rather confusing - when a human makes a value judgement of what is "best" can s/he separate her taste buds from her appreciation of the rarity of getting a "just so" shot?

Another view might be consensus - let enough people compare the two things (say in blind tests) and see which one most people prefer. Of course then it depends on who the participants are...

Fortunately, when it comes to coffee each individual gets to choose what is good and bad and usually nobody gets hurt. When judgements of good and bad are applied to more lofty matters they take on a much more serious aspect. Some philosophers argue that there is no such thing as "objective good". Others disagree. But that's another story.
LMWDP #049
Hand-ground, hand-pulled: "hands down.."